Revolution 13. Fitting retractable skeg

Hi
Been looking at the forum for a few years (from Plymouth,England), but have just joined to ask a question.
Recently went up a tidal river, most of the time we could stick to the channel so pedaling and sailing was fine (I have a Pacific Action sail 1.5m2) .
When it became too shallow we reverted to paddles.
On the way back we were in very shallow water so were paddling, as the river opened up there was a 15kt cross wind.
I was unable to keep tracking straight no matter how I paddled.
I tried keeping the rudder down and that helped a lot, unfortunately the water was to shallow for the rudder and it kept kicking up. As it is a twist and stow it does not come up straight and ended up causing more problems.(especially when the cable became disconnected!!)
I ended up sailing and using the paddles to steer until we could land. The steering had just unhooked from the steering lever,so easily fixed.

The sit ins that were with us just dropped the retractable skegs and were fine with the cross wind

I think if I had a retractable skeg that I could use when paddling with a cross wind in shallow water it would be a great help.

I know my paddling technique could do with improvement but I do feel the Revolution does seem to have some tracking issues. especially in shallow water with a cross wind and no rudder.

Has anyone fitted a retractable Skeg to a Revolution 13?
There is plenty if room to fit one. I have seen a retrofit retractable skeg unit, but only seems available in the states.
I have no problem making one, and fitting one, but if anyone else has done one I was hoping to gain some info. I was thinking of a fairly standard size one (about 15" long, but it is trying to decide if this is the correct size and exactly where abouts along the hull to fit it for the best advantage.
Any thoughts or ideas would be welcome.
Or any other ideas to help overcome this issue

Iain

One thought... we suggest using the rudder in the centered position when paddling Mirage kayaks.

The hulls have less keel to make the rudders work better, but when paddling, you need it for tracking. You can also make minor adjustments with the rudder for cross winds.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Hi
Thanks for the reply.
The problem I have is I use the larger rudder and in shallow water it keeps getting kicked up. It also turns as it lifts further compounding the problem. Also if the water is deep enough for the rudder it still has a tendency to drift off centre and always needs correcting. This is not a problem when peddling as you are using it for steering, but when paddling it is a bit of a pain to keep correcting.
So I thought a keel skeg would overcome all the problems. Drop for use in shallow windy waters when paddling and up at other times.
Thanks

Iain

Just a guess, but if your rudder is drifting, maybe the control lines are too loose... ? My rudder never moves by itself, even in tough conditions. It actually takes a little strength to rotate the rudder for me. I believe there are instructions for tightening them somewhere in the manual (have never done it myself).

I have found it can be very hard to paddle without the rudder in heavy cross-winds or current. I think that's true of all sit-on-tops. I actually switched hulls and went from the twist rudder to an up-down one (on an Adventure), and as much as I miss the twist, for shallow water the up-down is nice because it just pops up and falls back down if it hits obstacles.

Maybe you could rig a simple keg by buying the foam block insert for the peddle drive, cutting a slot in it, and inserting one of the Adventure's Daggerboards.

Edit: Hey, apparently that has been done! See this thread: http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=50153&p=227579&hilit=

This should solve your rudder problem -- just shorten it (large sailing rudder) up a bit. It should have more than enough to handle the sail effectively yet continue to function in 12" of water (or less depending on model).



A pair of gunnel mounted leeboarda will let you sail more effectively in shallow water, or mount them just behind the seat on a common shaft for more skeg-like performance. In either case, you would just rotate the lee side into the water as needed.

Hi All
Thanks for the replies.


I did look to see how easy it would be to fit one of these types on a Revolution but it started looking very complicated, but thanks anyway.
Unless someone has done this easily??



Quite an ingenious idea and worth a try. At least it is just a nut and bolt job.




Another good idea and should be quite simple to fit and have a trial.



Have had a look at the lines and all are free, the steering lever seems to be just tensioned with a spring and the rear pivot is free to move.
There doesn't seem any way of adding friction to the steering but I do like it as it is, free for steering.
Just a thought I could use a little rubber wedge to go between the lever and the deck to jam the lever in the centre position if needed whilst paddling

Once again thanks for all your replies.

I am keeping my eyes open for a Kayak that is broken, but has a retractable skeg. I was thinking of cutting it out and fitting it in the Hobie. Would have to learn and practice plastic welding though.
Lots to think about.
Most of my kayaking is around the coast so the Rev 13 is absolutely ideal, especially with the sail. So the problem with shallow water and a cross wind occurs very rarely, but would be nice to overcome.

Iain

Hi Again




Have decided to give this a trial.
I will mount 2 fins, one on each end of tube. I have made a cardboard template for a pair of fins. The tube will rotate in 2 mounting brackets.
I have the option of mounting it in-front or behind the rear deck hatch.
I have taken photos of the template on the kayak in the 2 positions in the raised and lowered positions.

Infront:-





Behind:-






I would be grateful of any comments or opinions on the size of the 2 fins and if either the forward or rear mounting positions would be better.(before I drill the 2mounting holes)
Both fins will be mounted to the shaft so would raise and lower together. The fins would be held in the lowered position with Bungie tension (so in the event of grounding they would rotate up) and would be held in the raised position with a cord.

Iain

Will that work in a cross current if that is an issue as well as cross winds, given it is a river? I have to angle the rudder to keep in a straight line crossing current. Isn't the current just going to drag the back around with a fixed blade.

Hi


The only problem I have had is in very shallow water, mud flats just before it joins the main river, with a cross wind. When the water is that shallow there is very little current. In faster flowing or cross currents it is generally deeper so the rudder is OK to use.
If I do still have problems after trying this I could try the modified rudder as suggested earlier.
Also the bow tends to be affected more with the water flow as it is deeper so this could actually make that less noticable.
Will give it a try and see what happens. Just need to decide on the mounting position, In front or behind the hatch.
Thanks Iain

You want to go as far forward as you can (behind the rear seat). Your "center of lateral resistance" (combo of fins and lee boards) should be as near as the center of effort (center of sail) as possible to get a more neutral helm. Here's a link to an illustrated example:
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread. ... eral-Plane

The leeboard prototypes look great! Looking forward to seeing the finished product and hearing about their performance!

What if you fabricated the regular rudder and the mirage drivewell plug to act as a mini-daggerboard/keel?

Hi



Tried that (similar,using the mirage drive in the down position) in a cross wind with the fins down (deeper water) and the fin in that position is too far forward, it needs to be further aft.
It is the stern that is blown sideways so am going to try the new fins just in front of the after hatch.
Going away for a couple of weeks but will post a picture when done. 2 fins are nearly made and will be fitted soon.

Thanks
Iain

Looks like you already have the ama bar mounted. I was going to suggest an alternative pvc mount that you could slip into the molded rod holders if you prefer.

Eager to see your results!