Adventure mystery leak -- where rudder cables enter??

Hi folks -- I have a couple Hobie Mirage kayaks, including a 2011 Adventure. For the last year, I've been fighting a mystery leak that usually leaves me with a couple of gallons of water in the hull each trip. I've looked everywhere for the leak and can't find, and I even brought the boat to a Hobie dealer and their repair guy couldn't find it either.

The other day I noticed: where the rudder lines enter the hull, there should be some rubber grommets (comparing to another boat), but these have dry-rotted away. The holes aren't large (a couple mm?) but I occurs to me that I keep my storage hatch slight open, as it's warped and hard to close, and would allow air to vent in the hull easily allowing intrusion?

Could this be the culprit? Second, what part would I need? I spent a few minutes searching a large online kayak dealer's website, and couldn't find anything short of a full rudder kit. Something I could buy at a hardware store?

Thanks!

It's pretty unlikely your rudder cables are leaking water, as the water would need to flow uphill (the tubes are tied to the underside of the deck). However your rear hatch probably leaks like a siv (ours does on our TI).
We get a lot of water on our rear deck (from the twin outboards), and water comes in both at the rubber seal and under the lip of the hatch frame.
Take the screws out of the hatch, remove, then smear silicone caulk around the opening, the screw the hatch back down.
The o-ring must be clean, well lubricated (I use teflon grease or armorall), when re-enstalling the O ring seal on the hatch make sure it is not twisted. Make sure there is no sand anywhere (any sand makes everything leak). Also when you close any twist and stow hatch you always have to push the edges down because the hatch bends (because they didn't use my plastic (lol).
While you are back there messing about, carefully inspect the rear scupper holes ( if your boat has them), the insides of those tubes tear very easily.
Hope this helps
FE

The rudder lines can and will leak if submerged for any reason. Rudder tubes do have built in seals BUT the seals are not perfect and can eventually fail. The older hulls (including my 2010 Adventure) have depressions where the lines exit the hull. These depressions send to collect water from wakes, chop etc that can serve as a constant leak source. The Adventure sits low in the water and squats lower when moving.


The amount of water depends on many factors, but a couple of gallons sounds quite excessive for rudder lines in most cases. Fusioneng's suggestions are excellent and should be considered the most likely points of entry for the amount of water you are getting.

Thx all - hmm...I'll have to take a closer look at the entry point for the rudder lines. The seals in my case are completely gone, but I'd forgotten about the tubes used as a 'chase.'

The areas where the lines enter the hull is constantly awash when I'm fishing from wave action....

If it's not the rudder line are, I give up in frustration. I'll check the rear hatch and scupper holes, again, but this is incredibly frustrating. It's not a safety issue -- it's a pain in the *ss having a couple gallons of water sloshing around, slowing me down, and having to empty it at the end of the day.

And now, my beloved Outback, I think an '11 -- a replacement hull -- has a crack in the drivewell, and *it's* leaking too...grrr. At least I know where it is, in this case.

I love these boats, and have 3 of them, but these leaks are a bummer.

On my old 2006 adventure which has the "recessed" entry ports as per roadrunners photos I cut little blocks of rubber offcuts to profile, and cut a slit in them then silicone/goop them over the end of these openings. The line running through the slit. This helps block the hole and wipes water off the line as it pulls through.

Worked well, even though it wasn't the neatest. I guess a bit of noodle would do the same. Replace if and when necessary. Might be a little harder to do if you have the "raised' entry ports

Well, this weekend I looked at my boat more carefully, and I don't see how I could cut a piece of rubber or pool noodle small enough to both fit in the entry, and permit the cables to travel. I'm also not completely sure this is the source of the leak, the more I look at it.

I'm totally baffled on how to find the leak, at this point. I've taken it to my dealer (Great Outdoor Provision Co. in Raleigh, NC), and his repair guy couldn't find it, pressurizing the hull with an air hose, and 'painting' with soapy water. We aimed a flashlight in various spots and didn't see anything. I also filled the hull about 1/3rd full of water, and let it sit and didn't see any emerging on my driveway.

Nonetheless, after a couple hours padding I have about 3 gallons of water in the hull.

I do typically leave the twist-and-seal hatch part-way open -- the one just forward of the seat -- because that's where I store my tackle, so I'm sure any leak is exacerbated by lack of positive air pressure inside the hull, but still....

If anyone has any thoughts as to where I might also check, or how to further debug, I welcome them.

Try not doing this for a start. You would be surprised how much water can splash up from the drivewell and into the hatch here.

Does it leak worse under any particular conditions, flat water/rough water/water coming over the nose/waves over the back at anchor etc.

Stuff some towels in at various spots and see which get wet first. Including wrapping one around the drive well internally. A crack here might only show when under stress of pedalling

Until you know which part of the boat water is coming in, it's a total random shot in the dark. What we did was put towels in the front, middle , and back of the boat, went out for a bit then checked. This is process of elimination. We had a small amount of water coming in the rudder lines, (maybe a tablespoon or so), a few tablespoons coming in each twist and stow hatch (mostly under the rim of the hatch not the rubber seal). However we had the most water coming in the front hatch, especially in rougher conditions.
In our case on a calm day we typically take in about a cup or two of water. On a rougher day when a lot of splash goes over the bow we take in maybe a gallon over a 3 hr period (nearly all the excess coming in the front hatch due to the hull flexing), in our case taping a garbage bag over the front hatch helps quite a bit when we are planning to knowingly go out in rough ocean and plan to go very fast. We do take in more water when the boat is overloaded. When overloaded the rearmost twist and stow hatch and the rear seat hatch are pretty much underwater all the time. Once you get above a certain speed the water no longer drains out the scupper holes, and they actually become drinking fountains filling up the rntire rear area of the boat.
My opinion is if your getting 3 gallons of water in the boat a pressure test should be done to find the breach in the hull. The obvious places to look are, all the scupper holes and seat drains, the mirage drive wells, and finally under the mast, under the mast is a double seal over the brass insert, if the upper seal is broken water can rush in under sailing load, but not be apparent when no load is applied.
Definately first order is to find which part of the boat most of the water is coming in, this narrows your search area.
Hope this helps
FE

Thx all - the towel idea is an excellent one.

@fusioneng -- the repairman at the dealer sorta DID do a pressure test with an air compressor, and we didn't find anything. The leads me to believe that it's some on-water issue. Maybe a crack that only opens when peddling (but is otherwise invisible??), or intrusion in a hatch or something.

Thx!

Any luck with this? I am in the same boat my local dealer( who is excellent) has pressure tested by hull every way possible. He replaced those rudder line gaskets as well but I am still taking on a lot of water. I had well over 3 1/2 gallons after about 3 hours in flat water. Just looking for some fresh ideas to find the leak- Bob

_________________
Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks learned much from both of their styles- JB

Bob,
A few years back my '11 AI hull started taking on water. I did the pressure/soapy water test with no result. I ended up taking a rechargeable high volume, low pressure airbed pump with me to my launch site and with the hull on the water inserted the pump into the aft gunnel drain plug. A rag wrapped around the nozzle ensured a good seal.
No bubbles at first but when I pressed on the rear cargo deck in a certain position, a stream of bubbles would exit from the scupper tube. Turned out to be an almost invisible hairline crack that only opened up when the hull was depressed in a certain way.
It was only by accident that I found it as I was using the rear deck for balance on the slippery boat ramp.
So some leaks are only discoverable using a combination of low pressure air and slight hull deformation.
Problem areas are the drivewell, seatwell and the scuppers so concentrate on those first.

If on flat water, especially when not underway then water ingress through cable lines should not be an issue. Also as suggested it may need to be loaded up.Even just you sitting in it. Try all the different scenarios and have towels located strategically and see which get the wettest first.

Drain plug itself. if trhis is used as test point then obviously it wont show.

My update- my dealer found the leak using an installed go pro cam. There were hairline fractures inside the area of the mirage drive-(both sides) where the click an go is fastened that expand under the torque of the drive being used. I am out of warranty so I am going to attempt a 3 part repair, attempt to weld crack areas ( hard because of access), then a few layers of g flex, I am then going to try level or marine goop on the topside click and go to minimize water intrusion- we shall see.

_________________
Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks learned much from both of their styles- JB

If its an area that opens up under stress any repair is likely to be unreliable.

Has hobie offered a pro rata warranty discount on a replacement, even though out of warranty?