Hardening your Island...WTF does this mean?

The reason is rigging time / costs and expected normal use. There is nothing wrong with the stock setup. Hardening is generally for the users in rougher conditions as additional precautions.

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Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thanks, yes, rigging time is important. But sailing on a shear pin and a prayer is not for me - I would add the keep out lines even for the normal range of conditions, especially if I was carrying passengers.

The shear pin is a safety device. You would be over coming that feature of course. It is a designed-in sacrificial part to avoid worse damage due to collision with something. It does not disable the boat and is easily replaced with spares... included.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Can't you build failsafe into keep-out lines as well? Line(s) breaks if force is great enough but holds if the shear pin just fails due to fatigue/cumulative knocks (the most common cause of failure I suspect if my rudder pin is anything to go by). I am talking about a redundancy arrangement in the engineering sense rather than overriding the shear pin safety device. Maybe this can't be done...

Wonderful that Hobie people take the time to talk to us. Thanks, I really this appreciate this aspect of owning a Hobie.

Redundancy is an option.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

It is great when suppliers support their products. Also good that they create reliable products to begin with; seriously, I've owned lots of boats that had to be significantly modified prior to being fun; Hobies are typically good to go out of the box.

Speaking of redundancy. When I first started sailing, I was amazed that boats didn't have redundancy. If you leave one bolt at home, you can't sail. -- I was amazed because I was an officer on a ballistic missile submarine and there were sometimes three things that did the same thing if one or two failed. Completely different on sailboats. Of course, completely different missions.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

Lead Belly:
I'm a product design engineer (my day job). When we bought our first TI back in 2010 (we are on our third TI now). As an engineer I reviewed the complete design of the boat and reviewed and physically tested every aspect of the design. Curious about the selection of the plastic sheer pin design I physically tested the design. I determined that it takes around 150lbs of force to sheer the pin. But also discovered the pin also can sheer when multiple smaller hits are applied. Without thinking further most felt that replacing the nylon pin with a stainless pin would solve the problem.
However I measured the force to fold and destroy the AKA, the force was only 200 lbs, in addition it also takes around 200 lbs of force to rip the ball off the hull (the ball that the brace attaches to, It also takes around the same force to rip the hull in and around that same area.
Damaging the boat itself can be very expensive, and will also end your sailing day. Adding the simple stretchy lines that I and others have outlined many times IMO still allow the pin to break, and prevent capsize, but they do not interfere with the original design intent.
Hope this helps
FE

My original safety line, It took me all of 5 minutes to install on the boat initially, at a cost of a couple bucks, never to be removed from the boat (the line is unclipped and just shoved in the mesh pocket during breakdown (takes 30 seconds). That same exact original line and clips are still in use 6 yrs later (though they look pretty tired now).

Regarding the 'keep-out' lines on the amas - would paracord be any good for this, or would it have too much stretch?

Mike.

Paracord doesn't stretch much at all, and it typically has a break strength of 500 lbs, that's way too strong.
If you use cheap nylon rope 3/16 or 1/4" did you will find it stretches like a rubber band to some extent, I think the test on it is 125 to 250 lbs , that's plenty.
In the event of a sheer pin break while underway from water pressure, waves, or just a really worn out sheer pin. The pin breaks and the safety line prevents the AMA from folding in so you can stop and replace the pin then get underway again. That's the lines only purpose.

In the event of you actually running into a dock of course the sheer pin breaks, then the line starts to stretch (obsorbing your forward motion like a shock obsorber which typically stops the boat and the boat bounces back (obsorbing energy).
If your going too fast it's best to let the pin and the rope break so the AKA can fold in (as designed to prevent massive structural damage).
Think about if you hit a dock hard, and tip over, if you get scared just stand up (the water is always shallow near docks).
Try it, it works...
FE

Hi FE,,

Thanks for the extra info - I have plenty of spare rope lying around, so I'll give it a try.

One final (?) question: You have your keep-out line attached to the front cross bar, how exactly do you attach it to the crossbar?

Presumably the keep-out line for each ama (L & R) are attached independent from one another?

Cheers,

Mike.

Mike, mine are not actually "attached" all, but threaded in front of the mounting bracket, behind the centre mast holder, and in front of the crossbar mount on the other side. I work on the assumption that the keep-out line will only be "in action" on one side.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

Ah, I see. I'm probably trying to over-think things a bit, but what happens if both shear-bolts go at the same time?

You could have one ama collapsing backwards and the other going forward - would be interesting experience!

But I guess when you're 'hardening' the set-up there's no such thing as going too far!

I was originally going to attach each line to the front carry-handle pad-eye, but the front crossbar does
seem to be a far more sensible attachment point.

I'm thinking of having a single line, with 50mm s/steel snap-clips at each end, running around the crossbar, but
somehow attached, so it can't slide from right to left (or vice-versa). I think by tying a couple of strategically
placed knots in the line, it could be prevented from sliding. I'll have a go and see what I can dream up.

Cheers,

Mike.

Mike, I reckon if you broke both shear-bolts at the same time, you would have enough other things to worry about!
But seriously, just wrapping the line once round the mount on one side will be enough to prevent the nightmare scenario you describe happening.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

My first solution that I used for a long time was as Tony describes ( a Single line). Later on I cut the rope in half and made slip knots on the ends (like a noose) and looped around the outer hull brace on the front bar.
Keep in mind this is a one time fix that only takes five minutes to do and remains on the boat forever moving forward.
When you swing the AMA's out you just clip one clip (takes all of 30 seconds). When done sailing you just unclip the clip and stuff the rope into the mesh pocket. All super simple.
Some guys have that safety line tied to the front padeye instead, that also works, however doing it that way you need to rig some other means to prevent the AKA bars from popping out (many solutions posted).

My most recent setup has the safety lines attached to the front padeye and incorporated into my heavy duty spray skirts. Now I can sit on the front spray skirts, or enter the boat over the spray skirts (we use our boat mostly for diving, and lash masks, fins, dive bags, etc on the front spray skirts (nothing heavy though), but that's just for our own convenience, (a very similar setup to a Windrider 17). I also have a rear set of weight bearing spray skirts (you can sit on them) that we sometimes use during the dead of winter when the water is bitter cold (under 75f), and we have to dive with wetsuits. To be honest I have only used the rear spray skirts twice, they were kind of a waste of time to make and are never used. We don't dive in water under 70f, and never go far offshore in the dead of winter (january).

Any setup will work, just design and build anything what works for you.
FE

Another question about knots (I only know about 3 fishing knots).

What knot is this and would it be okay for attaching a snap clip to the keep-out line?



Which knot would I use to attach the other end of the line to the cross-bar? (I'm going to put a separate one on each side)

Cheers,

Mike.