Newbie - how cautious should I be with wind?

I am going to go against the popular trend, but with some caveats.
First, assuming you have some other sailing experience and have flipped another boat before.
Second, you are indecent health and wear a life jacket.
Third, you have some sort of "rescue" option like other boats around.
Fourth, you have no trampolines on the boat

Push the B*TCH!
The boat is very safe, the mast will bend like mad to depower and the amas have a lot of flotation even when completely under.
Yes do not cleat the main, wear some sailing gloves and keep the control in your hand.
Flipping normally happens when close hauled, you can head off, sheet out a little and prepare for a fun acceleration.

In higher winds I also reef, but have held the ama under completely for a long time without issue. However once on a reach the whole sail is out for more speed. Remember heeling force is highest when when going close hauled.

Be safe have fun but push yourself once in a while.

When I'm in a new-to-me boat, my practice has been to reef early and often...if for nothing else than the practice in doing so.

Also, you have to consider gusts. Some pieces of water have steady winds of 10 but gusts of 20. Often, these places also have gusts that come "out of nowhere" so you can't see them rippling the water and even worse, come from 30 degrees different direction. Other pieces of water have winds consistently between 8-10 but gusts only to 13 or so (those are the nice places to sail). Until you know how far you can push a boat, it is good practice to reef for the gusts; that way you can't get into trouble.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

The most irresponsible "advice" I have ever read on here. Your "conditions", where you obviously seem to consider flipping the boat to be a likely (normal?) possibility, are absurd. Sailing with an ama fully submerged placed unnecessary stress on the boat, and is slower. And you haven't mentioned reefing once! Are you even aware of this capability??? I hope you don't drive a vehicle with the same approach.

An adult approach is as described by tpdavis...begin with a conservative sail area and put safety first.

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

No, just a different approach to sailing from yours. Quattroguy is simply saying test the limits of your boat but only when it is safe to do so. And he does mention reefing.

Not deserving of the splenetic spray from a storm in a tea cup...

Would you elaborate on that one?

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2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

I do not retreat from my stance. Imagine applying the same advice of "test the limits" to mountain climbing, sky diving, driving etc, and then you see the folly of starting at the wrong end of the risk (and safety) spectrum. It was a bit of a clue when he mentioned the advisability of having >some sort of "rescue" option like other boats around<

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Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I was trying to avoid this little spat, but....

These are our boats, and it is an individual's decision to sail it like they want. At the same time, for a beginner, you have to be careful, especially if you have passengers who are depending on you to get them home safely. The WaterTribe's advice, beginner or seasoned sailor, is to reef (furl) early and often in stormy weather (read that as gusty winds.) I think you get the best experience by starting slow, and ramping up as you are comfortable. We are all learning. That is the beauty of sailing these versatile boats.

Keith

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2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

I knew there would be some unfavorable response to my posting, but that is OK. All replies were respectful, unlike some of the crap that happens on other forums. There are others here with much more experience in worse conditions than me and I do respect their opinions. However my opinion is also worthy of consideration.
In response,

He is sailing in a lake, and I did say make sure there is a rescue boat/person nearby.
While I have never flipped my TI I have push it hard enough that I am comfortable sailing it hard. We have buried an AMA for prolonged periods of time and sailed the whole boat under a wave a few times. We have also practiced person overboard drills. We have never flipped only because the safety backups were not available at the time. But it will happen when we can do it safely.

In defense,
I had the same approach when learning how to sail monohulls, and did the same thing with my hobie 16. I have also rescued others who flipped and did not know what to do. If they knew the limits of the boat and what to do they would not have gotten into trouble.

In a similar light, when I taught my kids how to drive in the first year we went into a snowy parking lot and learned how to induce a spin and how to recover. One needs to know the limits of the vehicle and what happens at the hairy edge.

Pete, while I have trampolines for my TI I am not a fan of them. And from what I have read here they can be a problem when wind gets underneath them. Not sure if this is true but it sounds like it could happen.

That's what I figured.

Also the reason that I opted to make my single tramp more of a netted affair:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... JaRW5TYzBR

I've had it out in some pretty severe conditions and not had any problems with wind getting under it. OTOH, maybe I would not have had any problem with a conventional tramp..... -)

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

About the tramps and having them be a problem. Consider the size of the mainsail vs the tramp. I can't think of a condition where that tiny bit of sail area would be significant enough to push you over on a tri. Granted, I've only sailed about 8000 miles and in winds up to 40 kts, but I suppose it could happen.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

About Hobie Islands and tramps: When the Hobie Tramps came out, the first week after arrival in Hawaii, two different AI's flipped in normal gusty winds here.

I don't think it's as much of a problem with the TI or AI2 with heavier ama, but it is still good to be careful till you know your and your boats limitations.

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Hobie Island Sailing since 2006

Any idea how the older AIs flipped? ..... i.e. pitchpole or conventional capsize? ..... My money would be on some flavor of pitchpole.

I tried my best to flip my AI2 last season; but, happily, to no avail (except for the one time I managed to shear an aka pin).

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]

OK, here's the problem with reporting hearsay and why it's not allowed in court...we don't know the circumstances, in HI, it is much more likely that surf caused the flips than wind under the tramps. Did the tramps scoop up the water and drain too slow? We don't know...maybe the dumb owners were on the leeward tramp....we just don't know. Is it coincidence that the flips occurred when the tramps first came out...we just don't know. I DO know that when I asked Ian Farrier about changing the porosity of my tramps on my F242, he just laughed at me.

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R/Thom
SeaRail 19
Triak
BMW C600
Formerly Getaway with Custom Spinnakers
Formerly raced F24 Mk II

I reckon from the mass of comments you have shaken out of the jar CaptFlint, you have quite a lot to think on. But I agree with my compatriot Tony... err on the side of caution, and I reiterate the advice given to newbies at sailing dinghy schools...WHEN IN DOUBT - LET IT OUT ... that is, let the sheet go to take the pressure off the sail then, in our case because Hobie were thoughtful enough to provide such a safety feature... REEF IN SAIL FOR A SAFER AND MORE ENJOYABLE SAILING EXPERIENCE
Cheers Ian

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Also, after you have been sailing awhile - especially if you have a speedometer - you will get a feel for when to reef and discover that, above a certain wind speed, the boat actually goes faster with the sail reefed. ..... Once an ama starts submarining for more than a few tenths of a second at a time, I find that the boat sails faster with enough reef to keep the ama from submarining.

My experience is that a full turn of reef is about as much as I ever need until winds get into the upper twenties/low thirties (MPH-wise).

That being the case, I would suggest two turns of reef at first and then expose more sail as you get a feel for the boat... and remember about the LET IT OUT advice... anything gets funky, let the sheet out.... but not so far that the sail flogs - you do *not* want that thing flogging because eventually it will spit out that little S hook that connects the sheet.....not to mention the wear-and-tear.

If you are out there and it gets *really* windy -as in you get uncomfortable - try totally furling the sail and just sitting there taking it all in. .... It's a pleasant experience to go from uncomfortable to quiet and peaceful...just sitting there watching the world go by..... kind of like getting into the eye of a storm except that you control when you go back into the storm.

_________________
2015 AI in "Dune" - "The Grey Pig"
2017 Trailex 450 Trailer
Pre-September 2015 cradles
(anybody want to buy a slightly-used AI SpinKit?)
eMail: [email protected]