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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:14 pm
Posts: 3323
Location: South Florida
tpdavis473 wrote:
KayakingBob wrote:
About Hobie Islands and tramps: When the Hobie Tramps came out, the first week after arrival in Hawaii, two different AI's flipped in normal gusty winds here.


OK, here's the problem with reporting hearsay and why it's not allowed in court...we don't know the circumstances, in HI, it is much more likely that surf caused the flips than wind under the tramps. Did the tramps scoop up the water and drain too slow? We don't know...maybe the dumb owners were on the leeward tramp....we just don't know. Is it coincidence that the flips occurred when the tramps first came out...we just don't know. I DO know that when I asked Ian Farrier about changing the porosity of my tramps on my F242, he just laughed at me.

We can argue about the cause, but, if there are capsizes after the tramps came out, that did not occur before tramps, that is making a simple factual statement, and it has consequences.

There are 2 things that are going to happen when you have tramps that do not happen w/o tramps. (1) The windward tramp catches wind on the underside lifting the windward side. Those of you who have never used tramps just have to go out a few times with tramps on windy days--you will notice the difference. (2) Once the boat with tramps starts to heel significantly, e.g., in a gust of wind, the leeward ama and tramp are driven under water. There is the danger that the submerged tramp will "trip" the boat resulting in a sideways capsize.

On behalf of tramps, Stringy has made the argument that they make the boat safer, provided you hike out on the tramps. I have no disagreement with that statement. Since I often sail solo, I do not like to hike out for fear of falling out and losing my boat.

Keith

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Last edited by Chekika on Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2502
Location: Central Florida
tpdavis473 wrote:
KayakingBob wrote:
About Hobie Islands and tramps: When the Hobie Tramps came out, the first week after arrival in Hawaii, two different AI's flipped in normal gusty winds here.
OK, here's the problem with reporting hearsay and why it's not allowed in court...we don't know the circumstances, in HI, it is much more likely that surf caused the flips than wind under the tramps. Did the tramps scoop up the water and drain too slow? We don't know...maybe the dumb owners were on the leeward tramp....we just don't know. Is it coincidence that the flips occurred when the tramps first came out...we just don't know. I DO know that when I asked Ian Farrier about changing the porosity of my tramps on my F242, he just laughed at me.
The Hobie AI/TI Tramps don't let air through like the tramps on their cats and most other boats with tramps. The boats flipped sideways when the sail caused an ama to submerge and then the wind caught a tramp that acted like a second sail. Happened to me, and my wife too, but we each caught it in time before it was too late.

No hearsay, early AI owners both here on the Hobie Forum (and on KFS (Kayak Fishing Stuff Forum) before it) were a tight knit group that helped each other and helped Hobie make these boats great. It was like this forum is now, but mostly less contentious.

A search here on the forum will find the original discussions from 5-8 years ago if you need more answers to the circumstances...

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