Hobie TI, which Torqeedo to choose?

If someone would just do the test below, it would tell exactly what the electric outboard can do. Without it, I just have to take someones opinion about capability. If that includes a ton of other variables like your pedaling and sailing and going different speeds, that is completely useless info. You have no idea what caused what. If this was directed at me, please elaborate. All I see is an emotional response..

Sorry, but I would never make that purchase based on the complete lack of real info I see posted. The only data presented is that it works for someone who likely uses the TI completely different than I do. I dont think we are going to get real data from Pro10is so hopefully one of you other folks is interested in knowing how far you can actually go and and what speed for outing planning. I would absolutely want this info before making this signifiant purchase, I would think anyone about to plunk down that big wad of cash would also. And.. its a very easy set of data..

On a day with no wind and no current and on a TI, measure the power in watts and speed for a variety of speeds. For example measure the power in watts at 2,3,4,5,6 mph or as fast as you can go. Peak speed is also valuable to know.

You can then compare this to your battery pack capacity and determine how far you can travel and at what speed. Using the example I posted earlier, if you measured 300 watts at 5 mph (just a complete guess on my part but it may be close.. please prove me wrong with real data), and you had the 915 watt hour capacity battery, it it a very simple calculation to tell how long the battery will last. Simply 915 watt*hour / 300 watts = 3.05 hours. Since I know the speed and how long the battery will last, I can easily estimate the distance I can travel.

It would be very interesting to compare those numbers for the different electric outboards ON A TI. As other have noted, all those outboards likely have similar numbers until they top out at there max speeds. The larger outboard will just take you to the next higher speed but at more power. This might even tell you which outboard is the most efficient for use on a TI.

Im not at all trying to trash the electric outboards (unlike what was attempted on gas outboard in the last post - I just had to shake my head). Just being able to turn those on without having the pull start would be very nice. And they are quiet.. But what are the actual speed and range numbers without all sort of other variables for the electic motors.

My use is better met with gas and for the speed and range I need but I think I would actually go with a "clunky" motor mount and either the 503 or the 1003. The main reason is that its easy to REMOVE all that stuff for using the TI like its intended. Take a look at the 403 mounting and all sort of things are hung on the boat, extra lines, mods for controls in the back seat that are better used for make the TI easier to sail from the back seat. I go out with sailing clubs and no one is electric motor sailing.. So sometimes you want the motor, sometimes you dont. Being able to easily remove the motor and mount is a important to me. The single mounting point for the 403 looks a little weak to me also. Maybe on a hot day you would come back to find the motor drooping because the plastic back there got hot and deformed? Dont know.. And with the motor mount, if you found out that the electric range and speed was not what you expected, you could still go to gas later.

I've provided far more real world information about the 403/TI combination then you ever have with your misleading and narrow oriented theoretical calculations as well as your erroneous assumptions and aspersions about the 403 such as finding "the motor drooping" on a hot day which is utterly ridiculous and untrue. Your strange calculations such as requiring four 915 watt batteries have no practical value to the vast majority of people who would be considering purchasing a 403, they seem to only apply to yourself and an extremely narrow view and use of the motor, if they are correct at all. Yet you continually have used unfactual, unproven, and unjustified information about the 403 to influence others to perhaps make a decision that is incorrect for them. You do not own a 403, you have no real world experience with the 403, and you do not properly understand or appreciate its capabilities.

You keep asking me for watt readings and other such parametrics to continue your theoretical calculations, yet you pay little or no attention to my actual experience with the motor which provides far more real world and useful information to people here. Then you falsely and erroneously criticize me for providing a "complete lack of real info" and "completely useless info" which is both hurtful and untrue. I've guaranteed that my information about the 403 is correct and several other 403 owners here and elsewhere have collaborated. Can you make the same statement about your misinformation concerning the 403 having zero experience with it? You are calling into question your own credibility in an attempt to discredit mine.

I as an electrical and software engineer find your premises and calculations flawed and of little or no practical use to anyone here other than you. Other's here probably don't get it at all because they have nothing to relate it to. I am not going to provide you with any readings simply because I want no part of your misleading and narrow approach to evaluating a proven motor that was designed by highly qualified German electric outboard motor engineers and whose products have proven to be some of the best and most reliable of their type worldwide.

If you prefer a gasoline motor for your specific use then that's fine, I have absolutely no problem with you or anyone else choosing a gas powered motor based upon their own specific needs. But why try to discredit the 403 (and me) every chance you get based mostly upon your own highly stringent criteria when others may benefit greatly from using an electric motor?

My goal in providing the TI/403 Boat- Motor review and other such information here was to offer to people on this forum some factual information about them from someone who actually owned and used both together. I really didn't expect so much criticism, loathing, and disrespect from gasoline motor owners and others who for some reason felt slighted. I will vehemently defend my review as factual and complete and will not bow to criticism, but I caution anyone here from posting such reviews if you are uncomfortable with people attacking your findings, your credibility, and even your character. You might want to reconsider posting anything. This is a shame because the sharing of information is what this forum is all about.

Mate, you must be having a bad day...I read no negative, inaccurate, discrediting, or narrow-minded comments here. Lots of interesting facts and information for the OP to consider. Others have chimed in with their thoughts and experiences.

Lighten up.

I was with 2 fellows this past weekend, one had a 403, the other a 2.3 HP air-cooled motor. (They did not argue.) BobAgain had the small motor. Both were interested in the other's setup. Both motors were useful. Neither operator was going long distance, just using their motors in difficult conditions--strong headwinds, narrow space to maneuver. The discussion here has convinced me, that if I ever put a motor on my Islands, it will probably be a 403. Then, again, I don't intend to put a motor on my Islands.

BobAgain, be careful, you might get caught in the crossfire!

Keith

It is always a shame when a person's enthusiasm cannot prevent seeing counter-arguments as a personal attack on their ego.

Walt's request for actual observed battery usage data at various speeds was not unreasonable, as quite clearly, in among your lengthy promotional verbiage, you have not delivered such simple benchmarks, to enable others to make precise comparisons.

What I find amazing, is your totally dismissive attitude to cost. Maybe it is just me, but I consider that the electric solution you champion costing almost FOUR TIMES an outboard motor offering the same or superior speeds, over a potentially much larger range, cannot be waved over with your emotional list of potential environmental damage potential of petrol-powered outboards. (Even my cheapo Chinese 2 stroke outboard only consumes 10ml of oil an hour, hardly likely to cause dangerous smog)

As said already, lighten up . Some people are going to disagree with you. Live with it.

I also enjoy the technical discussions in the forum, and have participated or even started some myself.

But if anyone comes in here advocating some gizmo, and totally dismisses an alternative solution costing ONE QUARTER of their suggestion, I will always speak up, as I don't like anyone entering into something without being equipped with all the facts.

If that means the original poster gets offended, so be it.