TI outboard mount

Stringy, I'm glad to hear you're living the life out there. I'm also much happy to hear this is such a great upgrade. I wanted a range extender and another option to mitigate hairy situations. I don't have much time on the TI. I got it at the end of the season and got it 3 times on the water before it got too cold. On the last time I took it out, 15 Mph wind gusting to 35, turned unfavorable. I wasted lots of time in waves tacking with little progress. To top it all, I realize my tail is submerged, and this is in the busy traffic, bay of New York. A motor and bilge pump could have been game changers. So far I put more hours working on the TI, upgrading what I felt I could use on those three times and it is considerable I'm hoping to have my boat all souped up and battle ready this spring.

FE, My Suzuki cost me $740 after shipping. The mount material and hardware $70+- and the welder asked for $80. I think it's a good deal. I also wanted to ask, you wrote before about the benefit of "Safety lines". I am planing to stress the hell out of my boat and I'm going to install them. I really want to avoid capsizing. But I was thinking, I have tramps, don't the tramps protect from the possibility of an ama folding after a pin break? At least long enough for you to replace the pin?

Hezi:
Maybe yes maybe no. Obviously my TI is heavily modified and goes much faster than normal TI's. As a result I have had many horrendous crashes with the boat. Mostly pitchpoling where the bow dives and the boat goes from 15 or 20 mph down to zero in one second flat. I of course have the stretchy safety lines installed on the boat (never been out without them in 6 yrs). One consequence when you pitchpole dive is it always takes out both sheer pins, and the most of the tramp clips snap. They break just like a zipper, starting with one, then the next, then the next, as if they are not there at all. Also when screaming on a downwind in gusty conditions, it's pretty easy to dive one AMA, which also stops the boat,and shears the aka sheer pin every time.
So my guess is on a normal TI, chances are you are ok because you can't get the boat moving fast enough to break the shear pins, and all the tramp clips. Keep in mind the water force goes up exponentially with speed.

My opinion is the safety lines only cost a buck or so to make, and take 5 minutes to install one time only, why not install them, Then you have a double backup, both the tramps and the safety lines.
If your going out in light conditions, just leave the safety clips in the mesh pockets, (don't bother connecting them), but if going out in open ocean, you want all the safety you can think of.
FE

Thanks for your reply Fusioneng. I looked at the Island Hopper mount but the few reviews I've been able to find from users haven't been positive. Perhaps it would do the job with the addition of the string you suggested.

You make very demanding use of your Islander. I'm just looking for a way to not have to pedal when the wind dies. Another reason I like the idea of having a motor is the security it provides in the event of a rudder failure or unexpected changes in conditions such as thunderstorms, currents or wind shifts. I've found that sailing upwind is not the Islander's strong suit. An electric motor would probably be sufficient for my needs. I just get the sense from reading this thread and watching the videos posted here and elsewhere on-line that it just wouldn't be as much fun.

Your information about electric trolling motor options posted on another thread was interesting. As a result of reading it, if I go with an electric motor, I won't buy one that is two powerful to do the job efficiently.

The big difference between gas and electric is energy capacity.

The math is simple for this. Energy is power multiplied by time. You can use a fixed amount of energy with lots of power for a short time or you can use the same energy over a longer time by reducing the power. Its a very simple linear relationship.. Energy = Power * time. The units for "Power" are watts or HP (1 HP is the same as 745.7 watts). So when you multiply power by time to find energy, you get watt*hours. Or if a lot of power is involved, the units are typically 1000 watt hours or KWH.. Your home electric meter shows your energy used in KWH (kilo watt hours).

If you look at the links below, these both say that a gallon of gas has the energy of 36 KWH. (ie, 36 thousand watts * hours).
http://www.menloenergy.com/?p=535
http://www.science20.com/science_20/ene ... stay-91403

When comparing gas to electric on a TI and with options that are available, you really dont get anywhere near 36 KWH. Some data from using Torqueedo (way back in this thread) and a 2.5 gas outboard on a Hobie TI shows that a gallon of gas is more like the equivalent of 5.2 KWH. This number of 5.2 KWH energy capacity for a gallon of gas used on a TI is likely off a little but is also likely ball park.

So.. a gallon of gas used on the TI has the energy capacity of "around" 5.2 KWH. The large Torqueedo 915 watt hour battery is of course only .915 KWH or on the order of 5.6 times LESS than a gallon of gas. A group 27 lead acid battery (this is a big heavy battery) has on the order of .6 KWH capacity or on the order of 8.6 times LESS than a gallon of gas.

Looking at this another way, the Torqueedo 915 Watt hour battery has the energy capacity equivalent of .176 gallons (less than the tiny gas tank on the Suzuki or Honda which is about .24 gallons).. The group 27 lead acid battery has the usable capacity of .11 gallons of gas. Remember this is using 5.2 KWH for a gallon of gas. If we were to use the number in those links of 36 KWH, things would look much worse for electric.

If you dont consider cost, Electric is way nicer in every aspect except for energy capacity. If your energy capacity needs are low like getting a little power assist while sailing or for fish trolling, electric is quiet, never any issue starting, no gas to deal with etc.

But, if you want to get some place at a good clip, your best option is gas. One of these tiny outboards (2.3 or 2.5 HP) allows you to travel at 6 to 7 mph for many miles if you have a way to refuel. That is exactly my use of the gas outboard. If Im just tooling around where my speeds might only be 3 to 5 mph.. well that is exactly what the TI does well without any motor - and I remove the motor and mount completely when I want to use the boat that way.

more pictures.. (all hobby stuff.. NOT selling anything - just throwing out ideas)

So below some picture of the mount installed. Well, almost. I still need to decide the location and height of the transom plate. My plan to have the motor as close to the hull as possible may not work. If I want to be able to steer the boat with the motor in case of a rudder failure, I will have to drop the transom plate lower for the prop to clear the hull. That may create drag and waste of power. Putting the motor too closer to the hull interferes with the cart if I want to put it right behind the seat in the scupper holes (which I do). Installing the screws so far into the hull was a bit@h. I had to remove the rear hatch to get a little more access.

Here are some questions I have before finalizing the install just to find out it was a mistake while on the water;

1) How deep should the prop be? Following stringy's install, I started high at 9.5" over the gunwale. Below I posted a picture of the prop in relation to the bottom of the TI. I think I may have gotten the long shaft. The seller told me he had both options. I opted for the short, but there's no way for me to know what I got. I measured 27" from the underside of the motor cover to the lowest point under the prop. Can any Suzuki owner measure his motor for comparison? Should I lower the motor? Look like it is safely below the water line.

2) Does having the motor a little away from the hull can result in a pull to the side or any adverse effect anyone know of?

At it current height, the motor sits right next to my head. I believe lowering it would ease the noise a little but would it create drag?

I am anxious to complete this and move on to my next project. Spring is around the corner and I want to be ready...

One thing to tests.. Remember that the force from the prop thrust makes the boat go nearly as fast as the sail does. Think of the force on the sail in all that wind, its significant.

One little test you can do. The force from the prop thrust of course is at the prop so push on the prop with a fairly rigorous force. This creates a twisting torque on the mount. If all that metal is twisting when you do that.. it might not be strong enough. You can compensate by adding the tether from the shaft of the outboard to somewhere on the back of the boat like FE mentioned.. but if the mount is rigid enough, you dont need that tether.

Not everyone uses the outboard this way but mine is usually folded up (prop out of the water) when Im sailing and if its windy and wavy, there is 30 pounds being jerked around. Your mount needs to handle that also.

I am confident in the mount. it's a minimally designed tank. It is bolted down via 8 screws going through the hull and a back plate.

Hezi,
You have a short shaft motor. I get the same 27" measurement from the bottom of the cover to the bottom of the skeg under the prop.
The depth of your prop looks similar to mine, though being more forward it may sit higher in the water. There are other variables (I'm 20kg lighter) so you won't know it works until you try it. I haven't noticed any pull from being mounted so far out when the motor is locked in the dead ahead position.

Can't say anything about the mount, etc., your going to have to test on the water, leash it of course. The one thing I first noticed was your storing of the cart in the rear scupper holes. No go, I bet you end up with a pool of water back there unable to drain and thus seep into hull thru the rear port. No problem, just store up front or out on a tramp.

_________________
Mark
Tandem Island- 2013
2 - Sports - 2014

Pictures from a trip yesterday up in to Topock Gorge just N. of Lake havasu. Very little wind and we started off in 45F temps.. I think we traveled over 30 miles, probably pedaled sailed about 10 miles of that, motored the rest (maybe 20 miles) in the 6 to 6.5 mph range. .

(pictures hosted on FB.. so they probably wont last here)

As mostly kayakers and divers ourselves we tend to only go out in very light conditions. When it gets windy with big waves it gets pretty difficult to go snorkeling and visibility under water goes down to near zero. Plus the TI sits very low in the water and the waves tend to go over the boat and we get banged around quite a bit in 2-3 ft waves, not fun for us.
The other issue is in SW Florida and the keys it is darned hot with the ever present bright sun and clear skys. My demitologist says I'm the poster child for skin cancer,(true story), we always wear big hats and try to stay covered and out of the direct sun when we can.
Because the distances here are so great (it's 5 miles from launch to where we like to hang out the most). In very light winds (3-5mph) our main sail by itself does nothing except flop around and via pedal power we tend to travel 2-3mph, sure we can pedal like mad dogs and go faster but run out of energy in about a mile. With no wind on us we get overheated very quickly with our yellow boat I feel like an egg in the frying pan and I'm the yoke, (lol). My parents (from the midwest) used to have a winter home in lake Havasu alway had to be out of there in march because they couldn't stand the Arizona extreme heat (it's a dry heat (lol)).
For all these reasons we opted to add motors to our TI, and added much more sail area (up to 260 sq ft). I developed my own wing sail technology that amplifies and aligns any existing apparent wind and drives that wind onto the mainsail to force the main to provide propulsion even in almost no wind at all. Actually my best points of sail are 10-15 degrees off the wind upwind, and about 20 degrees from the wind down wind. My absolute worst point of sail is a broad reach so I try to avoid that like the plague. I never tack at all typically.
Around here it's just shallow bare sand anywhere near any body of land, kinda hard to snorkle in knee deep water, I feel pretty stupid doing that. Any interesting diving and snorkeling areas a 7-25 miles from launch.
Around here thru summer it gets down to 80-85 at night at 90-95% humidity, I don't know anyone who tent camps in the summer, when sleeping you need a rope around your waist and a ground anchor whan sleeping to prevent the mosqeetos from picking you up and carrying you away at night, (not really, but it seems that way).

What we have works for us, If we can maintain 8-10 mph cruise speed, we typically have a nice 15-20mph breeze on our faces when traveling that keeps us cool enough even in the hot florida sun. Typically when we get to the destination we get the heck out of the boat and into the water as quickly as possible.
Bottom line we do nothing like anyone else (I could care less what anyone else does), Our setup is the best of all worlds in my opinion, we can be far offshore diving in open ocean one day, and quietly kayaking up rivers and exploring springs the next day. We both car top and trailer our TI, I know of no other complex sail boat that can be car topped. A windrider 17 weighs 450 lbs and is impossible to car top, and our setup is way faster and much more capable (and half the price).
We rig for whatever we plan that day, inland the motors, big sailsets, and often the AMA's are typically left at the campsite. Actually most rivers dump into the ocean around here, so we tend to launch with all the sails laid down, with the AMA's folded in and jacked up out of the water with bungy's, and the motors tilted up. The TI glides and pedals no different than regular kayak mode (the whole key is to keep those AMA's completely out of the water), which is another reason we widened out TI so both the AMA's are 4-6" out of the water when on flat water so there is no drag of any kind from the AMA's.
I feel we have the perfect setup that fits our lifestyle, and are very happy with what we have, most of the time we end up towing other kayaks and TI's to get to our destination, the perfect mothership.
Thanks Hobie.
FE

Another TI motor outing.. Long lake, we sailed a bunch of miles to a place for lunch, sailed a little more down the lake until the wind completely let up then motored back. Great TI day spent with friends - with or without the motor.

Alas.. pictures hosted on FB so they may not last but that is OK in this case..

Here is the mount getting tested for the first time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPVza4_ ... e=youtu.be

Here is the mount preforming on a longer 26 miles trip. We were sailing North and returning South into headwind. The motor pushed us probably 16 miles. It was definitely a worth investment!
https://youtu.be/eExy6MQ3F98