Plastic Hulls

that is seriously impressive. this is what i expect from hobie. unfortunately, as someone above pointed out, most people don't demand this kind of longevity anymore because it requires more work to maintain. most people just want something they can beat the hell out of, then throw away and get another one.

The boat was treated well and was in a barn for about 10 years before I got it.

It is sad that this kind of product is no longer expected. This seems to be the way most markets are going. My dad has a drill and skill saw that are 50 years old that his dad gave him. They are heavier and not as pretty as the new tools but they are tough and refuse to die. That is kinda how I feel about the 14 and some of Hobies other boats. It just seems like things have changed a little in the company.

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

The change is a little something called injection molding. It's changing production thoughts to products all over the world. Initial mold costs are expensive, but after you have your kinks worked out. It's a matter of just pumping them out. There is a huge labor & material costs savings with plastic over fiberglass. It's amazing how many products are made from injection molding. It's also is easier production wise to react to demand. The start to finish time for many products is reduced dramatically.

I think you have to look at what the companies focus is to understand why they have gone to rotomolded boats. Keep in mind I don't work for Hobie so I may be off base. The original 14 was designed to help a surfer get out further faster. The fact that sailors would buy it up for sailing is an after thought. Now surfers buy jet skis, which are comprable in price to a new hobie 16. The 16 came about to provide a larger platform as the sailing community was buying up boats and so on so on. I think Hobies vision is three part with one major influence. One focus is the kayaks. I suspect that Hobie makes more money on kayaks then they do on cats. The second focus is entry level family oriented boats. Here comes the rotomolded boats. They are inexpensive, easy to rig, easy to sail, easy to maintain boats, and for someone who has not been sailing a 16 or Tiger, they are very fast and fun. The last focus is on the diehards. This group is comprmised of racers and recreational sailors that want more challenge then say a Bravo etc. For them you now have the 16, the Tiger, FX etc. The 18 was built because of racers. I prefer my 18SX to a Tiger because of cost and durability. But if you are a racer you probably would not go out and buy a new 18 (if they still made them), you would go buy a Tiger. If you are a racer, you probably would not go buy a 17, you would want an FX One. The 16 class still lives and breaths in so many parts of the world that Hobie will probably produce these boats for sometime yet to come. All of this of course is based on one major influence. That is the customer. The customer controls the demand and there for the money. Many of you 17 sailors are hurt that the 17 is being canned just as I was when the 18 went to wayside. But lets talk about the truth. How many of you were getting ready to buy a new 17. I have had four 18's and I have never been to the dealer to even consider a new one. There are so many good boats out there at low prices why would I. I paid less for my nearly perfect 1999 18SX including the new Ullman main, jib and spinaker then a new one cost during its last year of production. Hobie still sells a number of 16's that keep that line viable. You might even look at the double edge sword as you talk about your 40 year old 14's etc. If Hobie didn't build such a quality product the odds are they would still be making 14's. But the reality is there are 14's everywhere in good shape for cheap. How can you ask someone to pay 8-10k for a new Hobie 14 when they can get one in decent shape for 600.00. I think the only mistake LASTING mistake Hobie ever made was letting some overpaid but obviously incompetent lawyer agree to a comptip mast rule. I'll bet you now that I have brought up the comptip mast this thread will go at least another page.

As to the original question, I think the rotomolded boats are fine in quality. It is true that when you break one you can't fix it, but it takes a lot to break one. As for UV damage, I think that is a matter of quality. I don't think it will be any more of an issue with a HOBIE product than it would be for a fiberglass boat. Just out of curiosity, what is the Hobie warranty on rotomolded boats.

The process used is actually "Rotational Molding",
From Wikipedia:
"The rotational molding process is a high temperature, low pressure plastic forming process that uses heat and biaxial rotation (i.e. rotation on two axes) to produce hollow, one piece parts.

Critics of the process point to its long cycle times- only one or two cycles an hour can typically occur, as opposed to other processes such as injection molding, where parts can be made in a few seconds. The process does have distinct advantages. Manufacturing large, hollow parts such as oil tanks is much easier by rotational molding than any other method. Rotational molds are significantly cheaper than other types of mold.

The rotational molding process consists of four distinct phases:

1- Loading a measured quantity of polymer (usually in powder form) into the mold.

2- Heating the mold in an oven whilst it rotates, until all the polymer has melted and adhered to the mold wall. The length of time the mold spends in the oven is critical. Too long and the polymer will degrade, reducing impact strength. If the mold spends too little time in the oven, the polymer melt may be incomplete. The polymer grains will not have time to fully melt and coalesce on the mold wall, resulting in large bubbles in the polymer. This has an adverse effect on the mechanical properties of the finished product.

3- Cooling the mold, usually by fan. This stage of the cycle can be quite lengthy. The polymer must be cooled so that it solidifies and can be handled safely by the operator. This typically takes tens of minutes. The part will shrink on cooling, coming away from the mold, and facilitating easy removal of the part. The cooling rate must be kept within a certain range. Very rapid cooling (for example, water spray) would result in cooling and shrinking at an uncontrolled rate, producing a warped part.

4- Removal of the part."

Wheras injection molding, from Wikipedia:

"Injection moulding (American English Injection molding) is a manufacturing technique for making parts from thermoplastic material. Molten plastic is injected at high pressure into a mould, which is the inverse of the product's shape. The mould is made by a mouldmaker (or toolmaker) from metal, usually either steel or aluminium, and precision-machined to form the features of the desired part. Injection moulding is widely used for manufacturing a variety of parts, from the smallest component to entire body panels of cars. Injection moulding is the most common method of production, with some commonly made items including bottle caps and outdoor furniture."

I don't know what else I can say but, this stuff is tough and can withstand tremendous abuse!
For the majority of people that walk through my door, the plastic line of Hobiecats fits them perfectly. Price, durability and usability.

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Sail Revolution
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ditto to that comment "MISTAKE" and I don't want to see ANYONE get hurt. Attributed to the fact that the H16 is the most popular beach catamaran EVER. Big numbers = attention.

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

One additional thought on injection or rotational molding...

Injection molding is a fast process, but there are significant limitations to the size and shape a product can have. Injection works well for thin items, but not thick. It works well for small items, but not large. The pressure required to inject material is huge. I cannot imagine the press that would be required for a hull!... let alone the die function needed to achieve the hollow cavity required inside the hull. There is also a problem with the heated plastic cooling as it is injected. That restricts the size and thickness of a part as well. For all of these reasons... a hull is not possible with injection molding I believe.

You can blow mold them in the size we need, but then again... contours are restricted and you can not embed hardware fastening points and sleeves like the Wave and Getaway have.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

There are certainly plenty of threads you can search for on that subject already, but I can't agree on calling it a "Mistake".

It was a bad time in US history, a liability claim free-for-all. This is something that likely kept Hobie in business at the time.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

wholeheartedly agree there, we're just, again, for the umptyumpth time, harping on "the rule".

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hobiejohn at earthlink dot net
Fleet 297

Very good points, JACK FLASH. I'd side with you - many second hand boats reduce the demand for new boats. It would be hard to imagine Hobie (or any other companies) stopping producting a product that was selling well and making lots of money. Anyone remember the 80/20 rule - 80% of profits made by 20% of products? Why make products that don't make money? It obviously seems like lots of people like the plastic boats becuase Hobie is selling so many. And like JACK FLASH says, there's boats for everyone. Maybe not always the boats that we're used to, but most of the time they've been improved.

Lets face it, how many of us would go and buy a new boat? There's more than enough second hand boats at minimal prices (compared to new prices). One day perhaps I'll have enough money (I wish!)

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Anthony
88 H16 "Moonshine"

I'd never heard this before . . . Alter designed the H14 to get surfers out to the breaking waves?? What did they do with the catamaran when they rode a wave in? Seems like it would only be good for the initial trip out, and then back in when you were done surfing.

I don't know where I heard that before. Maybe it is not true, like I said I don't work for Hobie. But that factoid is really irrelevant to my point.

I think it was just designed for the surfing crowd. It was something that they could do along with surfing and could be used as a rescue boat for surfers.

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

Here's a question. Will the comp tip ever come off of the US Hobies? Or for all time will we be forced to pay for someone else's mistake? Hobie should have a waiver you sign if you want a boat w/ out it.

Then what happens to the boats with comptips. How do you do races? I understand that the advantage of a non-comptip is very small but people would make a big deal.

_________________
Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!