Help me choose a new jib/traveler setup

I know this has been discussed a couple of times here, but was hoping to get a little more info to sway my decision one way or the other, so that I don't regret my choice. There looks to be several different variations, as well as different ways to run the lines. My current setup ('84) has the swivel cam mounted on the crossbar and a single block traveler car, with no remote traveler adjustment. I'd like to add remote travel for obvious reasons, and possibly do away with the single block on the car and get a little lower profile. The block seems to sometimes pull at a strange angle that allows the line to slide along the edge of the stainless a bit, off of the pulley.

Current setup



I was looking at the two different remote traveler kits from Murray's. The cheaper kit requires the use of your current traveler car setup, and just gives you the cheek blocks, cleats, lines, etc., this would get the job done, and the jib sheet system would not change. I'd probably want to replace my block on the car with the trentec cars. Cost for this setup would be about $181.




2nd option is they have a more expensive kit that includes the Ronstan traveler cars, and the existing swivel cleat is then used for traveler adjustment. Cost for this kit is $235


My first question, has anyone used both systems? Which is easier or less problematic? Any problems with either system? I'd like good adjustability on and off the wire, for either solo or crew.

I'm leaning toward the cheaper option with trentec cars.

As far as running the line, there are two ways I've seen illustrated. The first goes from the car, to the cheek block, then runs beside the track (along the fore side), then around the mast to the fixed cleat which is on the opposite side of the boat. 2nd variation goes from the car, to the cheek block, then right to the cleat mounted near the corner casting. The 2nd variation is the way the kit is intended to run and I plan to do it that way. Is the only difference just the location where the line exits the cleat?

Looks like most people tie off the end of the traveler lines to the shrouds. Is it common to have enough line so that when solo trapped and positioned near the stern that there is enough line?

I have used both these systems and both work well but for a 1984 boat the trentec system is preferred. Lower profile = more mast rake. Run the traveler adjustment line to the opposite side shroud or put a grommet in the trampoline like the new boats. Adjusting from the trapeze doesn't really work (too much friction). Incidentally Hobie Cat Europe sells new boats with a similar trentec car system today. Hobie Cat USA and Australasia use a different system for new boats.

You already have two swivel cam cleats near your mast that can easily be used to adjust your traveler like in Option 2. The lo-profile swivel jib block/traveler slides allow more mast rake, a lower jib and the jib sheet has fewer bends (easier to adjust or quick release).

I use one line for controlling both jib travelers and a second line for both jib sheets. That way each line is easier to grab (particularly when solo tacking or gybing) and a single jib sheet also works well when your crew is on the wire.

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Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

True, both option #1 and #2 are designed to use the existing swivel cleats. Option #1 they are intended to be used for the sheet control just like I'm currently using them, option #2, like you said, they would be used for traveler control. By doing away with the single block on spring and using trentec cars with option#1, I'd gain the low profile. My only concern is the travel route from the original swivel cam cleat going through the trentec car. Due to the position of the cam and car, being straight across from each other, it requires the line to go through the trentec car hole at quite an angle compared to the other systems. The old block on spring hangs forward 2-3 inches, and has a smooth transition using the sheave. trentec car is just a hole with a slight bevel from what I can tell. I think it would be okay, but without having it to play with, I don't know. It's certainly cheaper than option #2.

My opinions (I've sailed with both):

Option #2 is far superior. You'll be very pleased with how well those low profile cam cleats sheet in/out compared to the existing, clunky swivel cams (which are adequate for traveler lines) and without the extra turn through the traveler car..

The second variation you describe for running the traveler control lines makes no sense to me. I've seen a lot of H16s with a lot of variation, but never seen that.

If there's much tension at all on the sheet, it's nigh impossible to adjust the traveler from the wire (or otherwise). You have to loosen sheet, adjust traveler, and retighten sheet. Therefore, it's best to leave as little slack as allowable in the traveler control lines (do they don't get fouled on stuff on the tramp....like the beer cooler).

Consider using different color lines for the two traveler controls. I use green for starboard and red for port. Comes in handy when you have a newb for crew.

Consider using two separate pieces of shock cord for the traveler return....fastened to the DS bar near the opposite corner casting. Benefits are less stretch/wear on each (especially if you leave both sides travelled out jibing downwind), snappier return, and if one fails you can still use the other.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16

I like your idea of separate shock cords for each traveler. When sailing solo, it would definitely make it a lot easier being able to leave both travelers set out. Also, since each piece of shock cord is longer, it should retain it's elasticity longer.

_________________
Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

Thanks for all the tips guys, after some consideration, I think I'm going to go with the 2nd option with the swivel cam cleat on the car. I did notice something though when I was looking for individual pieces to the kit and comparing prices. Murray's is still selling the kit, but the individual Ronstan #01-3130 shows that it's been discontinued, and the new design is the ronstan s19 c-track & slide, pn RC91942 & RC9190-0.45. There wouldn't be a price difference if I pieced together the stuff using the new s19 car and track, what are your thoughts? Stick with the kit with discontinued cars, or try the new system?

https://www.murrays.com/product/s19-c-t ... leat-stop/
https://www.murrays.com/product/series-19-c-track-45m/

That sucks. Hobie has the same part (#1075)….wonder if that's discontinued as well? M. Miller?

Installing those countersunk SS rivets in that narrow track gap is a PITA. If you go the track replacement route, search the forum for tips. The nose on a standard gun doesn't go far enough down in the track gap to get the rivet head flush. I'd recommend you get spare rivets in case you FUBAR some.

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16

Yeah, I've read that. I was just going to grind down my puller or use a spacer to get it done. I have the flat rivets, was going to upgrade my main traveler to the deep track a while back but bought a different boat, so it never happened.

Would anyone happen to know what cam cleat & bullseye is being used on the traveler cars currently, or ones that would work well? I couldn't find an individual parts break-down of the 1075

For the 1075: Instead of a bullseye, I like to use the Hobie 50012 Roller Fairlead Kit with an eye strap on top.

I also ground down the bottom of the slide's pin since I have a traveler trim kit.

See my picture above.

_________________
Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

Do you feel like the rollers are smoother than the bullseye? Happen to know the size or part number of the cam cleat on the 1075?

The benefit of the roller fairlead is it allows for an eye strap to be mounted on top for connecting the end of the jib sheet. You can also take advantage of the larger opening (in the roller fairlead) to connect your jib traveler return bungee cord (see my picture above).

I don't know the part number for the cam cleat since I bought the 1075 as a complete unit many years ago.

One thing I did do was to take the 1075 apart and flatten the black mounting plate. Before I made this change the angle that the jib sheet had to be raised was too high to easily uncleat while sailing solo. Flattening the mounting plate lowered the cam cleat enough so that it could be cleated/uncleated a lot easier.

One problem with the 1075 is that there is a plastic washer in the swivel part of the slide that will wear over time and make more slop between the slide and the cam's swivel mounting plate. This will affect the vertical angle range at the other end of the mounting plate where the cam cleat is. There is no way I could find to replace this plastic washer without replacing the whole slide/swivel mounting plate

_________________
Tim
84 H16
82 H16
87 H14T
Tortola Sails: 115222
Blue Prism Sails: 88863
Clearwater, FL

I think I'm just going to fabricate my own car and swivel brackets. I work at a fab shop, so it's pretty easy for me to knock something like this out, and make it exactly how I want it. I've just slapped together a design which allows me to disassemble if needed. I would make attachment points on the bracket for the sheet and bungee. The only thing I can't figure out is which cam cleat would work best. I used a Harken 150 for my main when I fabricated a new bracket when I converted my old Seaways to 6:1. The 150 works really well, but might be overkill for the jib. I was also considering the Ronstan RF5001, which is currently used as the traveler cleat on new Hobies, but it looks a little small to me. Looking at images of new boats, the jib sheet cam cleat looks slightly larger than the RF5001. I'm using 5/16" line for my main, probably going to use 5/16" for the jib as well. Is there a cleat somewhere between the Harken 150 and the micro cleats?

Here are some photos of the main bracket I made a while back https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63734&p=306272#p306272

I went out to our club yesterday, and none of our members have the Ronstan low-pros or Hobie 1075s. Mine are newer (not newest) cars for the integrated track, and I was thinking the cleats look bigger than the Ronstans I'm remembering, but maybe not. My cleats have the same dimensions as the Ronstan 5010 which looks to be basically the same as the standard Harken 150 (that's elsewhere on the boat). I use 1/4" for the jib sheet, and am very happy with it. With that, you could definitely go down to the Ronstan 5000 or similar. (Expect that's how newer boats with smaller cleats are rigged.)

To complicate all this, the catalog description of the Hobie 1075 indicates it's a Harken (not Ronstan) cleat.

The roller fairleads are super sweet...much less friction than the bullseye.

I (and many others) tie the traveler end of the 3/16" control line to the pin (just under the head) using a half hitch with a stopper knot in the very end. Holds well and keeps the pin up. My cars have a hole in the front for the shock cord.

FYI...if needed for this cleat (or any other on the boat), you can get wedges that fit underneath to adjust the angle. I use a 10 (15 maybe) degree one on the mainsheet cleat because I'm between "clicks" on my carbo-ratchamatics when trapped out low.

Hope this info helps some.

(Guess I'm up to 6 cents, now!)

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Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16