F16's

I had a chance this past weekend to see some Blade F16's in action in a local regatta. From what I saw these things are damn fast. I know my Tiger isn't quite up to speed with other F18's...very slow downwind...but the F16's led us most of the races. Although all but one was sailing single handed in 10-15, the one with 2 people rounded every mark of every race in first place (except 1 time to A I think). These boats are around 265 pounds and can be sailed solo or with a crew. As of right now their portsmouth rating is 65.2, which means F18, 20, and A class boats all give them time..hopefully this will change soon. Though they were never really that far in front, I wish we would have been more up to speed to see if we could have competed a little better with them or even beat them.

I really think Hobie needs to come out with an F16 design. I would make a pretty strong bet that this class, due to its speed, weight, and ability to sail either solo or with crew, is going to take the performance sailing world by storm.

_________________
Tiger 947/2364

It does seem to be doing well, I love the boats and would love to have one.

I seriously looked into building one last winter. School took priority, but someday I will have an F16, maybe it will be a HObie!

_________________
Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

They break. Theres a reason they're 265lbs

Do you have any proof of what you are saying. From what I have heard most of them are very tough and well buitl.

The Alter Cup was sailed on them in some big winds and no mast broke or anything else serious.

_________________
Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

The FX One is similar, but only weighs 60 pounds more, at 325. Alot of the parts on the FX are from the Tiger which makes this boat a bit heavier but built tough.

I am still in the first year with the FX and it seems to be very tough.
It definitely sails great one up with spin.
I would love to sail with a F16 out here in the North West somwhere if there is one out here. It would be great to see how they stack up.

From US Sailing,
"Hobie FXOne spi 1-up HFX1US 68.6 72.0 70.9 69.2 65.7"
"Formula 16 Slp spi 2-up F16 65.2 69.3 67.5 64.4 62.3"
"Formula 16 Uni spi 1-up F16U 67.1 70.0 68.5 66.0 63.3"
These ratings are similar, but it looks like the F16 must perform beter in heavier air.

_________________
Mike Hensel
'86 Hobie 18, '93 Hobie 14, '80 Hobie 14(restso in progress)
Wind in your sails, water in your shoes, great day!

I was told that by a very good sailor from Florida. I would take his word as gospel.

I can personally testify that the boats are extremely fast! I also personally know the builder (Matt at Vectorworks), and he stands by his product. Some of the older boats may have had some issues, but the newer boats are built very well. They carry a very modern rig and wingmast as well. While I wouldn't be caught dead on one, they have their place. A Blade F16 will burn an FX-1 (or most any other beachcat) anyday. Even the N20s have a hard time dealing with them in light wind. Once the wind gets up though, you just can't push the boat hard downwind. A 16' waterline hurts when the kite's up and the wind is nukin'. Still, they are fast and light, and are def. a ratings killer boat. Their portsmouth numbers will be coming down soon, and I expect to see them rated almost as fast or the same as the F18.

_________________
Trey Brown
www.velocitysailing.com
2006 N20 1017
1998 H16 102698
www.sunjammers.com ftw!

I never said they weren't fast. I've just been told that they break. What exactly I don't remeber but he contacted me via email when I was shopping for a different boat and told me to stay away from F16's. Maybe they've gotten better. I know a new A-class wouldn't last me a season. I'd destroy it. I'm not the carefull sort, at least not that carefull. I need a boat that can handle dings. Even my FXone requires a bit more of a gentle touch than I'd like. The inside of my hulls are full of dents from heals when righting it.

Yeah, they are not Hobie 18 tough, but they are cool boats and I would love to see Hobie jump on the bus and build one.

Like I said, by the time hobie had one on the market I might be able to afford one.

_________________
Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

How many people have the money and would like to buy one, right now, show of hands?

I love checking out new boats, don't get me wrong.

Begin car metaphor:
There are a ton of Hondas on the road because they're reliable, inexpensive, and economical. These traits and appeal to most people. There are a few of us that have some extra dough lying around and would prefer driving a Ferrari. Great! Parts are more difficult to get, it takes a highly trained technician to work on it($$), and the high performance nature of is prone to breaking down.

I've been selling sailboats in CA for over 10 years and I'll tell you, within the Catamaran market, sales of new boats are minimal. No matter what brand or model. It costs a ton of money to tool up for a new model, so, having done the calculations before, I would have to presell 200 boats to break even. That's a lot of boats.

And, with the nature of the hull designs in these high performance classes changing all the time, new tooling would have to be remade in a year or so to keep the boat competitive.

So until I see the number of cats (existing models) attending local regattas rivaling the numbers that we had in the 70's and 80's, I think developing a new boat would be a terrible business move. If, right now we were in 1980 I think it would be a great idea.

We just had our Alter Cup qualifier and 15 boats showed up. 5 Aclass and all of the rest Hobies. That's pretty sad numbers. Last year we were the second largest in the country with 20 boats. Southeast beat us by 3. The numbers just aren't there to support a large scale, new class, development.

_________________
Sail Revolution
Join us on our new FB Page!

So did Hobie Alter presale 200 boats before he built the Hobie 14....I doubt it!

I am not running Hobie the company down at all, I love their boats and they are the primary reason cat sailor exists the way it does today.

I am just saying that for a class to take off it needs support and Hobie would be the company that might provide that kind of support.

_________________
Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

That's a very poor analogy.
Go back to your econ class and study "product life cycles".

In 1967, there was little competition and a wide open market.

40 years later, the market is very competitive and saturated.

Has Vectorworks sold 200 boats since they started making Blades several years ago? I don't think so. Now add another manufacturer into the same limited market. Both will suffer.

Kudos to Matt McDonald for taking the plunge, but I would not want to be one of his investors. I would be a long time before I saw any of my money again.

Be careful. Matt is selling Blades worldwide, and cannot even keep up with the demand. I'm sure if you asked him on catsailor, he'd be glad to let you know how many he's already built, but since I've seen them in several places in Europe, as well as in the US, and I'm guessing they're in Australia, something tells me that Vectorworks is doing something right.

_________________
Trey Brown
www.velocitysailing.com
2006 N20 1017
1998 H16 102698
www.sunjammers.com ftw!

Just out of curiousity, I looked up VectorWorks. I see they are in an old marina building I used to fish by when I grew up in Titusville Florida. It is interesting to see what businesses end up going to places where you lived.

But to get back to Hobies. To make money and stay profitable in a business that is considered a hobby and a pleasure in life, you have to have products that most people can afford. The wealthy are going to buy Lagoons and cruising monohulls and such to show of their wealth. Most people end up buying used Hobies cause they can't afford to spend $10k to buy a new 16 with a trailer.

Sad to say I sold my Hobie 17, bought a Mystere 4.3 to learn the chute on and plan to get a Blade in 2008. They are 21st century technology that as said can race solo or 2-up. My 17 was 21 yrs old and just outdated. I love Hobie and would have gotten a Tiger, BUT they are not a solo boat, sorry Matt, nothing against Hobie, I have had them for 27 years, just had to move on.

Doug