The diving leward bow

Matt, while this thread is still pretty active, can you explain what is mean by stack up? I don't quite understand. And with maximum rake, how is the jib halyard adjusted so it doesn't limit the amount of rake?

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

Stack-up is the amount of vertical space that your mainsheet system takes up when sheeted block-to-block.

Another way to measure it is to rig the boat, sheet the main in as far as it will go (block-to-block), then measure the distance between the boom and the rear crossbar.

That measurement with the current stock, low profile mainsheet system is less than 9".

The jib halyard should never limit your mast rake. The forestay is usually the limiting factor. On older boats, you can just add another adjuster to the forestay to make it longer. Put a piece of shock cord between them to take up the slack in the forestay when the jib is up.


Here's what I would do with your boat:
1) Rig the boat
2) Sheet the main until it's almost block-to-block (maybe 4" between the blocks - don't oversheet so that the leech of the sail hooks to weather of the mast).
3) If you can't get it in that far, loosen the jib halyard until you can
4) If you can sheet it in that far easily (leech of the main is still open - not in line with the mast), tighten the jib halyard.

You want to be able to stand behind the boat, sheet in the main and have the leech line up with the mast before you go block-to-block.

When you're sailing, the wind will blow the leech open, allowing you to sheet in that last little bit without hooking the leech.

Here's what a hooked leech looks like: (it's a 17, but the principle is the same)


That little strip of red you see above the mast is the leech of the sail. This sail is oversheeted. Oversheeting is slow.

Thanks Matt, I think I know what you are saying. I'll check out those measurements tommorow, should be some good wind as well. Thanks for all of the input you give us novice sailors here on the forum, it is really appreciated. I think I speak for all of us when I say that I know it's something that you certainly don't have to do, but I sure am grateful that you help us in the way you do. That goes for all of you dealers too that tirelessly give us your input to help us become better sailors. It really just makes me love this sport more every time I sign into this forum, you guys are awesome. And by the way, the hotline is awesome, ya'll really do a great job. I think I've read the last one about six times or more cover to cover. Thanks Mast Downs, I love that story ( i hope I didn't cross any lines saying that). Keep up the good work, I'm really proud to be a hobie sailor and it's the little things like the way ya'll support us here on the forum that make me feel like I am part of something much bigger than my sixteen foot sailboat. I really think that I've found something here with you cat sailors that I will cherish for the rest of my life. Maybe one of these days I'll meet you on the starting line. Good winds and flat seas to you all.

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James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

I know what you mean by that last post. When I started sailing Hobie;s I felt like I had joined something larger than me. Now even that I don't sail a hobie I still feel like part of a larger family.

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Nacra 5.2 "Elsies"
Hobie 14T, "Blazin" I guess I am keeping her!

Matt,

Could please clarify- "the distance between the two marks." Are you talking about the distance along the halyard- between the point where the halyard touches the bow and the point where the halyard touches the bottom of the transom? I'm just a bit dense.

I did a little re-rigging today to gain more rake. Now I need to add an adjuster and/or make a longer forestay as I don't even think an adjuster will be long enough.

Could you also provide some more detail on the jib sheet/blocks? With the jib tack attached at the top hole of the adjuster, and the amount of rake I have now, the jib clew is only about 2" -3" above/in front of the traveler track. It does look a lot like the jib clew position in your pic, however. I have not upgraded and still have the old/original (Seaway?) jib traveler and block setup on my '86 H16.

As long as we are talking about the jib- how far should the head of jib be from the mast tang? I have an Aussie halyard attached to a pigtail. With this setup it seems the halyard, where it leaves the upper block, is 4" - 6" or more away from the mast. I forgot to measure, but think I made a 6" pigtail) but is seems like it would be better to have a shorter pigtail so the upper block is closer to the mast- bring the halyard in closer to the mast and would reduce chances of snagging a jib batten on the halyard.

Also remember when you rate the mast back you will create upwind rudder pull, you will also have to adjust rudder rake to compensate.

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06 getaway -- always remember, man with both feet in mouth have no leg to stand on.

That's it.

As for the clew of the jib, there are a couple of things you can do to get more sheeting space.

1) Move the jib up in the adjuster.
2) Minimize the stack-up

Here's a photo of my jib clew before I installed the new stock traveller cars:


If you're working with the old traveller track system, the best type of car to use is the Tren-Tec four-hole slider.

Thanks Matt.

Right now I have around 14" of rake with about 8" block to block with the main sheet not under tension, so I think I'll rake it a little more. That should give me at least 16" of rake and around 4" or less between blocks when sheeted under tension.

I need to shorten the shrouds a bit more, just a little too much slack for me. I made them a tad over 19' (19' 1/4"?) based on HCA data, but just recently read they should be 18'11" for the current mast rake.

My forestay is currently about 4" too short. It may be more when I add the additional rake. I'll see what West Marine has in the way of adjusters, then may just make a lower pigtail to get by for the weekend.

I think the jib will work fine for this weekend. I want to see how the other boats at Jordan Lake are rigged anyway. The jib sheet and traveler issue and upgrade are projects for this winter.

Though it is supposed to get into the 70's today, the temps this morning were in the high 40's- Burrr!!!!!! I guess I'll see if I can squeeze this old body into my old warm water dive suit.

I fixed the picture - Comcast has been "upgrading" their web site, making hotlinking to online storage almost impossible.

Don't forget that lots of mast rake is good in heavy air, but not so good in light air. You'll want to stand the mast up a bit if it's not blowing over 10 kts. Maybe about 24" from boom to rear crossbar when the the sheet's not under tension.

The jib halyard setting is the most important adjustment on the 16. It's a balance between mast rake, leech tension and rig tension.

ashaffter,
Yeah, it was a bit chilly this morning, and yesterday was pretty cold to. I'd bring your suit if you have one but I was at Jordan last Sunday and the water was still bearable. So far, the forecast is calling for temps in the low 70's on sat, and a high pressure system is supposed to be moving off the coast by mid-week, bringing in some good onshore winds, let's hope those winds hang around until saturday and come on inland.

_________________
James
86' Redline Hobie 16
Sail # 76909

Matt,

Thanks for fixing the pic.

Here are some shots of my boat taken a few minutes ago.

As you can see, with the jib halyard adjusted so there is no slack (but no tension) in the shrouds, I still have 8" block to block (7" with main sheet under tension) so I have a ways to go. You can imagine what it was like before- boom parallel to the tramp!





I'm using the bottom hole of the shroud adjusters (at your suggestion, I put the toggle back in ) so I can shorten the shrouds a tad more and still have ability to reduce rake for light winds.



The only problem with more rake will be the jib clew to traveler distance. The jib tack is on the top hole of the forestay adjuster. Here is a pic of the jib clew and traveler. I guess I will be able to handle more rake with new (Trentec) jib travelers.

Harken has smaller jib blocks that will help give you extra distance between clew and crossbar.You can also travell out jib cars.
Matt 24" between boom and rear cross bar seems like a lot .I am normally between 18-20".I am not sure I could rig my boat with 24".

Yeah, I was guessing with the 24" measurement.

It's not a lot of difference from the heavy air setting.

A few suggestions:
1) When you get more rake, the beckets on your main blocks will start to interfere with the ability to go block-to-block. Install an eyestrap above the cleat and tie the end of the mainsheet there. Don't use a bowline, just put the line through the strap and tie a figure-eight knot. Cut the beckets off.

2) On the jib, do the same thing with the end of the jib sheet. Put the line between the becket and the pulley and tie a stopper knot. That will eliminate 2" of stack up.

3) Look closely at my jib clew picture. The shackle uses two holes in the clew plate. The bow goes through one and the pin goes through the other. If you replace the stock blocks with Harken Micro Blocks, that will eliminate another 1 1/2" of stack up in the jib sheet.

Is that a boom vang? (blue line). Otherwise known as a "crew decapitation device"? We haven't used those in about 25 years. That's why the new boats don't come with the fittings anymore.

That's a real purty boat, though. I always liked the Prism pattern.

Just a point to ponder: Rigging is a depleting asset. Buy new, use for a few years and get rid of it and get new. Call your hobie dealer or Saltydogmaine and keep it pretty fresh. I get new every 3 or so years. My son is really hard on it and we've had this and that break and it can be pretty dangerous, so get new rigging. Also, Hobie Univerity is on the class website and tells you exactly how to rig your boat, no matter what model you have. Just like baking a cake. Follow the instructions and Vioila!
Good luck

I had the traveller in all the way because I wanted to see what the min. dist would be- worst case. Yup, I was looking at some smaller blocks to use with the jib earlier today and WM.