HCA says NO to the FX1

It's somewhere in Wisconsin. I found it somewhere, and now I can't find it again. Check the CRAW website, they hosted it last year. There isn't anything on it right now, and the US sailing website doesn't have the schedule up yet either.

It should pop up here some time soon: www.ussailing.org/championships/elimina ... nshipid=11

Gentlemen,

Lets be Inclusive as an organization not exclusive.

In a thread on Catsailor I made the statement that when two of my friends and I went to a Hobie points regetta w/H-18mag and were DSQ'd (after announcements at the skippers meeting saying we were going to race as magnums) and sent home, my two friends never ever attended another Hobie event again and I shortly thereafter took my H-18 apart and put it behind the shed for 8-10 years. I was doing 15 points Regettas /yr at that time. Now 15years later I am hearing the same
bulls--t !!!

Is that the way to build a class? Why do we keep on repeating the same mistakes over and over ... and over ... and over ...again !!!

A class starts with a single boat ... then there is a second ... then a third ... a fourth ... a tenth, a twentieth ... etc. But all classes first started with ONE.

I believe our organization is called (the)Hobie Class Association of North America. Correct??? Where does it say (the) Hobie 14/16/17/18/Tiger/20 Class Association of North America ??? The FX-One is made by Hobie so you can not say "Hobie Only" either. I have seen this same argument with the H-14 Turbo, H-18mag, H-18sx, H-17 Sport, H-21se/sc, and Wave. Maybe this is one of the reasons (of many) our organization is slowly declining.

Call me hardheaded, and we know that is true, but why would I want to invest $2500.00-$3000.00's, two weeks of my time, beat my truck up and drag my boat across the country coast to coast only to find you have sent my friends home ... again!!!

To Bob Merrick: Sir, it is 50/50 whether I will be able to attend HarrisonHotSprings this Aug because of my economic situation currently, but I personally ask you to make this right for the long-term betterment of our organization and sport.

Sincerely Your Friend
HarryMurphey

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Where is the North American Hobie Class going to be in five years from now? With the current exchange rate a new Tiger is $19K. Will the EU exchange rate change dramatically? In our favor?

Face it, pockets of four to eight consistent racers, in various Divisions, are currently racing 17, 18 and Tiger. I'm guessing in 2013 the 20 class will be in the same predicament, and the 17/18 all but non-existent. Wave, 14, FX-One (sorry Karl) are non-existent, sure we can hang on to the 14's being drug out once a year for a NAC, but they'll never be imported again.

What's left but the 16. Hear they can't build them fast enough. Looks like the HCANA is headed towards becoming the Hobie 16 class association (ala Laser, Thistle, etc). Think there'll be a spinnaker class?

ps I'll keep this question buried here on purpose. I'd like to hear your guys thoughts. Seriously, who's going to plunk down $20K to be a weekend warrior? ps

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Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

This is still the cheapest racing I've ever done. Nothing breaks, I don't get seriously hurt, and the equipment isn't too expensive. Plus a sailboat should be competitive for at least five years if not more. That doesn't happen in anything motorsports.



John, you're really busting my balls here. The FXone is growing exponentially. Which at this point means almost nothing with so few numbers, but your options are the Tiger, the FXone, and the H16. That is if you want to stay with a Hobie product. I'll quit sailing all together and take up knitting if the Wave is ever the largest class at any given regatta. These next few years is the window for the FXone to get a foothold. In five years when a really nice H20 or H17 is hard to find what will you do? The logical step is either the Tiger or FX unless Hobie comes out with something else. The only other something else that makes sense is a F16 compliant boat. Which I seriously doubt would happen.


The biggest issue is that our sport is dying. Not sailing, not catamarans, but racing. Where has the competitive spirit gone? What I like about racing at regatta's most is that it is a two part deal. It is somewhat physical, and it is somewhat mental. There are tactics involved, something that doesn't come into play as much in most other forms of racing. Probably because we aren't set to a track. I think people have gotten too lazy and casturated by some mentality that being competitve or proving you're better than someone else, (which I fail miserably at), is wrong.

So where do we go from here? Thankfully I fell in love with a boat that is being built. I had a H16 and enjoyed the snot out of it. But I wanted a modern boat. Because of my overabundance of independance I chose a single hand boat. For a while there I wanted a Tiger. At a near miss incident last year I decided I didn't want crew, there goes the Tiger idea. So that left me with the H14, H17, FXone. I had a pretty nice H14 and hated sailing it. I've never sailed a H17 and the only reason I ruled it out is that I think they're ugly. The FXone is also ugly, but in that twisted, kinky S&M kind of way.

Hobbies ain't cheap. Granted this is exactly floral arangments, but it is a good sport for the average person cost wise. Drive that economy! Go get a loan for a new boat........

Ya, that's what I'm talking about, the future of the class association. You narrowed it to three, 16, FX and Tiger. You can count on no other Hobie choices, unless it's French and also count on it being expensive. I'll agree a single hand Hobie is missed and sorry for busting your balls on the FX-One (I hope you prove me wrong!).

I'll disagree on the demise of racing, there will be a resurgence (to a lesser degree from previous decades) but on what boat will keep this generation racing Hobies? Is the then 43 year old 16 class able to continue survival (I think so)? Will it retain the attention of the youngsters?

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Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

Lets take a look at my future in Hobiedom:

1) I like sailing a two person (two-up) boat, I find the teamwork aspect the most significant part of the racing. Teaching my niece to sail/race is what made me drag my H-18 from behind the shed, reassemble her and return to Hobiedom.
2) Niether I or my niece will ever race a H-16, we are 310lbs currently, over the last years I have lost 30lbs but my neice is still growing. And a H-16 is not technical enough to keep her or me interested. That's correct a 13yr old is too smart already to sail a H-16, she is bored to death on a H-16. " Uncle Harry, I will go ride horses if you try to make me sail a H-16". While the H-16 is an excellent "beach cat" it is extremely limited as a "racing sailboat" and I do not buy into this lets all race SLOW one-design boats w/ a limited performance envelope. I will go buy a Laser first and that is no joke, gentlemen.
3) A spin boat severly limits my crew options for "buoys" racing. Spin equiped boats require a experienced crew unless you wish to spend $$$s repairing boats. Combined with the fact most women do not like racing spin equiped catamarans as they are a very physically demanding boat. I race spin boats in distance races but that isn't Hobie One-Design Points Regetta's is it ?

So why do you think the Tiger and FX-One are not selling ??? Could it be that there is an extremely limited market for spin equiped boats ???

My H-18 is technical enough to keep me thinking, fast enough to keep me happy and the performance envelope is big enough for me to be competive with crew wieghts ranging from 300lbs to 340lbs. Also the boat is tough enough to be slammed onto a beach through a surfbreak.

I'm left with choices of a slow limited H-16 or a Spin Boat ....

So if Hobie keeps on this track when my H-18 is worn-out I will be buying someone elses product !!!! It will be very simple, I will take my time and $$$$s and go somewhere else.

Am I nuts? Maybe ... but how many sailors that were on H-18s and H-20s have downgraded to a H-16 ??? Most have just left "Hobiedom" for other activities

It is not too hard to see this frieght train coming at us ... now the trick for us is, are we smart enough to reconize these trends and take corrective action ?

Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Karl. good point about the F16...
There are a bunch of them in my area, and just in the last few weeks another 2 new ones have appeared at the local club. I got to ride on one a few times this winter, and they are definitely appealing due to the versatility: 1-up, 2-up, even 1-up without spin (not for class racing, but the P number can easily be adjusted) all with the same package. They seem to be less crew weight sensitive than the H16, easier to manage on the water than the F18's, and the boat weight makes them easy to move around the beach. I would love to see a Hobie F16 in the future!
For now though I am perfectly happy with the H16, it is the perfect boat to introduce my 11 y.o. to cat sailing.

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Arie
H 16 107568

The FXone does ALL of these things as well. There is a rating for every sail plan for the FX. I've discussed with another FXone sailor about submiting a rule change to the HCA for the FXone allowing a single hand uni-rig + spin to race head to head one design with a sloop + spin as the F16's do. We'd use the minimum crew weights to adjust for speed differences. That is one of the really great things about this boat. Flexability. Wings, or no wings, (which there is 3 to choose from). Just the main. Sloop. Spinnaker or not. I agree that is one of the greatest atributes to the F16 as well. F18's are heavy, and demand a heavy crew. The FXone could potentially have a minum two-up crew weight of around 265 lbs vs minimum of 308 lbs on the Tiger. As a fellow FXone sailor pointed out to me, it would make a good spinnaker training boat for youth.

So long as Hobie is producing the H16 there will be no F16 compliant boat built by Hobie. Hobie won't risk splintering the 16 class. A decision I totally understand and agree with. It is strong and doing well. I Don't see them messing with a good thing.

No argument there, and completely understandable!

I would love to see a FX one up close, but there aren't any in my area. If only we could get the dollar back up to an acceptable level, so that the imports aren't so expensive: a $4000 increase in the price of a Tiger just based on exchange rates is enough to make anyone balk at buying a new boat, and the price hike for the Fx is probably the same!

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Arie
H 16 107568

Can you please explain to me how the 18 is more technical than the 16? Is it that pesky mast rotation control that your niece plays in the puffs? Or the dagger boards that she pulls up while going down wind?

One other quick question. If 16's are so slow and are so non technical, why are they oftentimes around the course before the 18's?



That's quite a generalization. Look at the Tiger/ F18 fleet, there are plenty of women that work the front of the boat better than some guys.



How do you know these numbers? I don't think it's a limited market at all. Browse these forums and look at the boats that people are ADDING sipns to.

Not totally accurate. Didn't they change the build material of the boats to vinylester, and add a few upgrades like a full batten jib etc? That had to add on to the cost a bit.

I agree with soul cat on both points.I also have a 13 year old daughter and 16 year old son that crew for me,both are very good Laser sailors.I have never once heard them say they where not challenged enough.

Also case in point put a good 16 sailor on an 18 and he will eat up most of the 18 guys.Need prove first time I raced an 18 was at the 18 worlds in Toronto and I finished in the top 30.That was back when there was 150 boats registered.My buddy Ted Jagger did one better then that top 15 at the 1985 18 worlds Same story first time being on one.
I really don,t mind some one praising there class but it always irks me when to make there class sound better they belittle another class.
Harry you have been bashing the 16 since it was first proposed as an Olympic boat(yes I have been around since then to).
I have sailed a lot of boats,I liked the 18 but I choose to sail the 16.Is it better then all the other boats, no,but it is my boat this is a Hobie Forum not the (Cat sailor forum ) so maybe lets cool it on bashing other Hobie designs.
And yes your right I am getting too bent out of shape over nothing.I guess winter is to long here in Thunder Bay.By the way if you do decide to head to the Nationals you will fall in love with that part of the Country regardless of which type of boat you sail.

Anyone who registers for the event with the Classes as advertised in the NOR will not be sent home. The div regatta is an Open event, all hobie classes welcome. (keep reading for the proposal for the FX1 sailors)


Havn't alot of us done that already? My boat ('99 H18) cost me $15k when i boat it brand new in '99. Plus gear, trailer etc, i spent over $20 to get started again. And that was in Canadian dollars! And the rate is no where near what it is now. Inflation, newer boats, costs go up. I've noticed it takes 3-5 years for a new boat on the marked before you start seeing deals on 'used' craft, as the guys with the available cash by newer upgraded boats, allowing the regular guy with limited class to get into the sport. (How many 16's have people owned??? I know several people in our div who have bought new boats in the past few years to be more competitive.)

I think this is a change that has happened before. When i started in Hobies, there was only the 16 and the 18. 18's lost ground when the 20 came out... both the 18 and 20 have lost ground to the Tiger. 17's... (well, we're still not sure about some of those guys on those boats. ), it will lose ground to the FX1 as the demand for a more technical/ competitive boat comes into play for the higher ranked skippers. As mentioned... people are adding spins to current boats (16 and 18 ) to make it more exciting. It's all part of the evolution of the sport... ( And i thought the racing was about the drinking not the sailing??? Have I been Wrong all these years????? )

Hobie Div events should be for all hobie classes, whether in production or not. NA events are for the classes listed in the NOR. (unless you want to run a Mega event like Florida and Geneva's Mini mega). Which brings me to my next point of discussion... .The FX1 at Harrison.

To all the FX1 Sailors.... Connect with Karl or Mike Hensel. Here is your proposal:
Register with us before May 31 with a form that i have provided to karl and Mike, with your cheque. If we receive a minimum 5 boats, more is always better, committed to making the journey here then i will approach the powers that be again and propose the inclusion of the Class at our event. If approved, then we are good, If not approved, then your money will be either refunded, or can be applied to the registration of another of the classes that is listed in the NOR.

That is the best I can offer and i will do my best if you do your part.
So let's quit complaining and start promoting.

We'll make the journey worth your time.

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Paul Evenden
NRO, RMMCC, CJ

Sorry to disagree with you Harry. I have been sailing my Tiger for 5 years with Eileen. There is no way you would call her a physically strong woman. She works out but she is nowhere near as strong as a guy may be. She absolutely loves the boat!

We had some issues the first couple of times we sailed it. I was not aware of how hard the spinnaker was to hoist while sailing on a reach. We raced our Hobie 20 for a couple of years while watching the Tigers sail so I got my rounding ideas from those sailors. After two days of practice she said "You are going to have to find a guy to sail with, I cannot do this." My response was that I did not want anybody else to sail with I wanted to sail with her and let's find a way to do so.

We then practiced rounding the weather mark and going DDW while she hoisted. She commented that it was easy to do it this way. We have double ratcheting blocks for the spinnaker sheet so she can hold it in a higher breeze. She traps out early downwind so she can use her legs to sheet the spinnaker. Upwind, she does not sheet my main, but I put a 16 to 1 downhaul for her to use with a really cushy line so she can help there in windy conditions to weather. We do not have a tackline for the spinnaker (endpole) and that makes it all the more easy. You may have to soften the boat up a bit if you are sailing with a women on the front but I think it is well worth it. Even with all these "compromises" we are fairly competitive in our group.

Later,
Dan

I'm with Dan on this one.
My 16 year old female crew will scissor kick you to the back of the head.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5zFiYHgftw

I have the double ratcheting blocks and a separate tack line on the spinaker. The conversion to the SNU snuffer has helped ease the launch and retrieval. Also, covering the launch with the main sail like Dan allows for a smoother transistion.

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2003 Tiger - Don Atchley