Downwind technique

I've seen boats that when sailing directly downwind pull the jib over to the other side so there is sail on both the port and starboard sides of the mast.

I've tried this a couple times with only limited success. Has anybody else tried this or is this a mono-hull thing? Do I need a pole like with a spin? What about barber haulers. Would poles and Barber haulers be class legal? How/where would/do you rig it?

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The ox is slow but the earth is patient

It's called sailing wing-on-wing. It's a technique that is virtually never done on cats because in any wind other then a complete drifter, cats tend to sail faster on a course at least slightly above dead down wind-> a broad reach. Also, the fact that the mainsail on a cat has trouble going out to 90deg makes them less inclined to sail straight downwind. If you do find youself in a position where you want to sail wing-on-wing, it's probably best if either you or your crew just hold the sail out.

sm

Agreed.

One of the hardest things to get used to (especially for keelboat sailors) is running and gybing on a cat, especially a spinnaker cat. Counterintuitively, it is safer, easier, and less pitchpole-inducing to make a gybe at the fastest possible boatspeed - "slowing down" to gybe, especially in high winds, actually makes things worse.

Hooray for apparent wind!

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Tim
Unofficial Fleet 72 Communications Officer and Div 4 Webmaster
http://www.hobiefleet72.org
http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/

Actually, in keelboats it is also safer and easier to gybe when going the fastest. More speed = less apparent wind = less pressure.

True, but the effect is much less. A symetrical-spinnaker keelboat going 9 knots nearly directly downwind in 15 kts of breeze is about 6 kts apparent, from behind. An assym F18 or a "wild thing"ing A-cat (or an International Moth or windsurfer for that matter) can gybe at or above wind speed, so the apparent wind actually tacks across the bow - a big difference!

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Tim
Unofficial Fleet 72 Communications Officer and Div 4 Webmaster
http://www.hobiefleet72.org
http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/

can someone explain to me how you go about this gybe at high speed. Do you sheet in then let the main go across just a little or do you let that puppy crash across and cross your fingers just for luck. In short I am 9as you can tell) ignorant on the subject of this type of gybe. But I would love to learn the proper way of doing it. I sail on a river that runs the same direction of the prevailing winds so my days sail consists of a lot of tacking upwind then a "gentle" downwind return to the marina. It would be fun to add something to the downwind part of the sail.

Actually as you describe is the approach to lessening the violence of a gybe in heavy air. Instead of sheet in, think of travelling in to reduce the amount of distance the main moves to change tacks. Actually uncleating and recleating the traveller is too time consuming so the pratice is to do the same thing by grabbing the mainsheet just below the boom block, as you're turning, pull the sheet/boom/sail as far to center as possible, let the sail cross, holding tension to the center and slowly/gently letting it fall off to the traveller position on the new tack.

Wing on wing was standard practice in Hobie 16 racing until discovered (around '80) that sailing a higher course and gybeing on the downwind leg is faster.

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Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
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Yup! That's how I do it. Here's my usual process on the H16 (not saying it's best or even right but it works for me):

1 - Pass the tiller extension and hold it with the rear hand along with the tiller crossbar (if you don't just toss the tiller behind you while sailing downwind and let it drag - too easy to break a hotstick this way byt fine with the solid extention).

2 - Start the turn smoothly but fairly quick (don't jam the rudders over or it will just stall out and slow you way down) and move towards the other end of the tramp.

3 - Reach around the sheets/blocks with your front hand and grab the tiller/extension. Let go with the back hand and use it to grab the bundle of sheet between the blocks.

4 - Keep the turn going and pass the main across while turning your body around (you are going from facing across the boat to facing to the stern to facing across the boat in the opposite direction as you started).

5 - Drop the sheet bundle, stop the turn on your new course, and pick up the mainsheet with your front hand. If the sheet is out of the cleat (either on purpose as you gybed or on accident), sheet in and cleat/hold as conditions dictate.

The hardest part (takes practice) is knowing how far you have turned while in the backwards facing point of the turn, and not turning too far up to a beam reach. The faster, smoother, and more confidently you can do this, the faster, smoother, and easier the gybe is. Once I got good at it, a gybe in chop with 25 mph winds goes from *SLAM*"Whoa"*crew in lap**bury hulls to crossbar**swim* to a quick and easy maneuver (easier than trying to tack in that crap)

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Tim
Unofficial Fleet 72 Communications Officer and Div 4 Webmaster
http://www.hobiefleet72.org
http://www.div4.hobieclass.com/

One thing I think I tend to do during a high wind jibe-

There is a definite point when the sail is coming across- on a good jibe, you will grab the sail and it will float across smoothly, on a bad jibe (if you slow down too much) the sail will slam across, but in either case, there is a definite point when the sail is comming over. Once the sail has committed to comming across, I straighten the rudders, then when I'm comfortable and situated on the new tack, I'll head up. It's pretty subtle and all happens pretty quick, but there is a definite point where I let the boat go straight before heading up so I prevent rounding up and going over sideways. This pretty much occurs right at the time when your switching hands on the tiller. Sometimes, if it's really windy, you may even find yourself turning in the opposite direction of jibe after the sail has flipped.

sm

As mentioned before in a thread earlier this year do not forget to put a "stopper knot" in your traveler sheetline. This is to prevent the traveler car from slamming into the corner casting on the H16 or the hull on the H18 ... it can be quite spectacular when the traveler car on the H16 slams into the corner casting ... those little things called needle bearings fly everywhere. On the H18 it can put a crack in or chip the hull if it hits the hull.

Oh, H14's do go straight downwind ... but that is a whole different set-up that requires being able to adjust the mast rake on the water.

Harry

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

Sometime if you get a chance, ask Wally Meyers about the guy on a 17 he called "Dead Downwind John" at the 17/18 Nats in Seneca. LOL

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

Trick is crossing the dead down wind point gently, which lets you grab the sheets and pass them over smoothly..too fast and you'll send the boom and traveler crashing down to the other side. In heavy air bringing the traveler in can help.

Death jibes are brutal, keep your heads downnnn

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Tiger 947/2364