Quick Rudder Question

A person has asked me the following and I don't know the answer. He bought a sailing rudder because he thought it would work neat. Problem is that he has the old style up/down rudder system.

He was told that the larger rudder would not fit on that old style as a replacement so now he is wondering about converting his old hobie from the up/down syle rudder to a twist and stow rudder so he can use the new larger rudder.

Is the conversion possible? Would anybody recommend someone attempting this.

Thanks in advance.........Roger

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Roger
http://www.aldenofsunapee.com/
http://www.NEKF.com/

Roger, the older style rudder system is not compatible with the T & S and is not convertable. Having said that, Stringy has made a very clever adapter that converts the old style to the new and still retains the old style kick up. He uses the large T & S rudder on this. Kepnutz has made a slick sleeve to fit over the old style. Both work great from what I hear.

If your customer is handy, he might look up these posts and see if these may suit his skills.

BTW, yes, that is Hodges -- looks a bit different since last year's fire removed all that year around green chaparral. It should be back though in a few years. I was going to post some pics but never got around to it.

G'Day Roger,
Here's the link:
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8125
Take note of Roadrunner's suggestions if you do get around to doing it.
It's still working well!

Thanks guys,

I figured that was the case but didn't want to tell someone no without first checking with a few "experts".

Roger

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Roger
http://www.aldenofsunapee.com/
http://www.NEKF.com/

Hi,

I've just received my 'replacement' T&S assemby from Hobie and will carry out the modification to replace the 'old' one over the next few months while the Yak is laid up.
I only need to find a tame welder to create the new swivelmount for me and I'll be set.

The guidance from Roadrunner, Stringy and Kerpuntz is very clear but I do have one extra question.
Is there anything to be gained by doing away with the 'original' up/down guylines and replacing them with 'new' Spectra line ? or is one way just a bit less/more(?) complicated than the other ? Anything for an easier life!

Any other observations from those who have completed this mod or are planning to would be most welcome.

Flintstone.

P.S. I completed my own rudder mod by enlargeing the original rudder with the addition of two alluminium plates, one fixed either side- worked well but bent easily, I'm now using it as a prototype to fit a winglet.

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Flintstone

G'Day Flintstone,
If I was doing this conversion now I would be adapting the Hobie rudder upgrade kit for the 07 AI. The new system is much better than the old and certainly makes raising/lowering simple. It would mean adding a pulley block internally to either side of your kayak somewhere forward of where you sit and running the up line left side and down line right side through the blocks and back to a spot within reach. You would have to buy an extra block as the kit only comes with one. A cam cleat is used to lock the down line. You would need to work out the best placement for the line exit holes and cleat location.
Finally you have to prevent the old stainless rudder mount from kicking up. You may just be able to secure it to the existing eye pin that the original line attaches to underneath the mount.
Check out the AI upgrade post here:
http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewt ... sc&start=0

Thanks Stringy,

The more information the better. It'll take me a little while to get my head around everything, and get all the parts, but as the Yak's laid up for the winter it's no problem.
The A1 mod seems an easier solution as the lines etc. are supplied and I've got no problems in getting extra pulleys, etc.

I was going to permanently fix the 'original' rudder mount in the down position using a padeye or similar.

The main thing I have to do is measure up for the mod to the ruddermount and get the welding done.

I've read that the T&S rudder pins are subject to possible breakage through accident so I'll get spare. I was going to use a hardwood dowel or metal as an emergency replacement.

Thanks again.

Flintstone

With the rudder and the addition of rigging a sail boom and making a jib sail I've got plenty to do so it's a good job it's winter-apart from the cold!

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Flintstone

Hi,

I've studied the Yak, the Parts etc. and Stringys' conversion details, and I'll follow the advice to get the A1 T&S Rudder upgrade kit too.However I have another question.
Is there a critical relationship betwen the 'level' of the top of the 'new' T&S Rudder mount tube (the one to be welded on) to the position on 'original' up/down rudder mount.
I'm a bit concerned in that if the 'new' welded on mount is not in the correct alignment verticaly, the 'new' steering and up/down control lines may not operate effectively or efficiently.

Flintstone

I can't find the A1 T&S Rudder upgrade Kit Part Number in the Parts cataloge, can anyone help. Please

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Flintstone

G'Day Flintstone,
I don't think the position is that critical. I positioned mine so that the lines were at roughly the same exit angle from the kayak as before and so that it fitted OK when folded up onto the deck. Use the first pic in my 'how-to' as a guide. The added tube sits at about the same height as the top of the original tube for the pin.
The AI part number is (I think??) 81391002 RUDDER UP/DOWN LINE SYSTEM '07.
However Kayaking Bob posted this in the AI upgrade post:
'There are two different kits, one for the 2007, and one for the earlier hulls. The difference seems to be if 2 tubes, or 4 are included in the kit. I think the idea was that the later boats already had the newer tubing on the rudder turning lines.'
It looks like there are two different kits available.

Hi,

Thanks Stringy,
There didn't seem to be much difference in the 'height' of the rudder mounts but I thought I'd check.
My 'tame' welder is away for some time so I might just make a mock-up with wood and bits and pieces whilst I've got time.

I might have to drill the rudder assembly at the point of insertion of the Rudder Pin as unfortunately we've gone Metric and I'll need to find a suitable Pin and Tube that are compatible.

From what I've been reading the 'original' Adventure installation has 'bungys' to relieve the strain on the rudder control lines but they're not included in the 'T'Handle mod- any comments?

I'll get a mail to Hobie Support and get a definitive answer on the T Handle Rudder Control Line replacement kit(s)


Tanks

Stan Flintstone

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Flintstone

G'Day Stan,
We are metric here too. I wouldn't drill the rudder housing. You would be better to drill a smaller stainless tube out or shim a larger one.
I used the sleeve from a 10mm x75mm stainless Dynabolt to shim my tube. The actual Dynabolt I use as an emergency rudder pin.


I'm trying to remember but I think the bungees are part of the upgrade kit.

Hi Stringy.

I'd only just located your previous entries in the A1 Forum and your last mail was in that too.

You say you used the 10 mm Bolt, as shown. I presume that's the outside diameter of the 'post'. I measured the rudder pin I received as 8mm (or 3/8th in).
The expansion 'Bolts' we have in UK are different to yours, much shorter at the 'grip/expansion end, and the 'head is an elongated 10mm before it reduces at the thread to fit inside the sleeve for gripping.

I'll try the web for something suitable.

Anyway, in the meantime, many thanks for the assistance and correspondance.

Stan Flintstone
Thank goodness for the Hobie Forum.

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Flintstone