Outback '09 Impressions

Hi

A few months ago my '07 Outback developed a leak (actually several) at the cam bolts that hold the Mirage drive in place. To my surprise, Hobie graciously sent back a new '09 Outback hull under warranty (I thought I'd get an '08 hull). Here are my impressions on this newly redesigned hull...

RESHAPED HULL:
The newer hull (changed in 08 I think) has a redesigned keel. The new keel is several inches less deep and just a few inches lower than the sponson sides. This is quite an improvement over the old hull.

For one, I can now enter shallower waters than before. And if I run up over an underwater log, I have far less of that gut wrenching teeter-toter feeling as the hull lifts on its keel and the yak drops over on one of the sponsons. I am far more confident with this new hull in waters filled with tree trunks ...and I can better keep up with my traditional kayaking friends in shallow waters that used to ground me.

The new Outback is also more stable when a lightweight person mounts it. And when I get out of this yak, the new hull does not float at the wild slanted angle that my old Outback did, which for some reason always embarrassed me.

Is the new hull any faster? Actually, it may be a bit lower. It's hard to tell. On smooth water I've noticed an extra "V" wave coming from the front half of the new yak. This has me wondering if this hull is pushing a little more water now that the sponsons are lower into the water. But as near as I can tell, I seem to be able to reach about the same top speeds as before.

Unfortunately the new hull is prone to more bow and side splat in heavy waves (1.5-2.5 feet). This results in a wetter ride in windy weather. I think this due to greater sponson contact with the water now that the keel has been raised.

REDESIGNED DECK:
The back deck "well" area is cleaner looking now that the floor is flatter. That's because the well loses that deeper rectangular area right behind the seat. Cargo should place better. And cargo may be dryer as well since in the old boat the water would sometimes pool in the rectangle area shortly before it dropped through the scuppers. The rest of the deck appears to be identical to the older Outback with just one possible exception -- for some reason my seat (carried over from the old boat) seems just a stitch less comfortable. Over time (2-3 hours) my lower back starts to ache a bit. This may, or may not, indicate a differing seat configuration, but that rarely happened in the old boat.

STOW & GO RUDDER:
The new Stow & Go rudder is far more effective than the older rudder. My turning radius is about a 1/3 less. But the rudder's deployment is more complicated and takes a bit to get used to. Wherein before I just had to flip one lever, I now have to choose from 2 cable pull handles, one on each side of the boat (one for rudder "up" and one for rudder "down").

The down lever has a holding cleat to keep the cable taught and the rudder down. Without that cleat, the rudder will sometimes rise up. I cleat it most times. But in shallow waters I'll un-cleat it so the rudder is free to raise if it hits something under water. Oddly enough if the rudder on my boat is raised by forces other than the rudder cables, I'll know it soon enough as my yak will suddenly veer to the left as the rudder drops back down into the water, somehow now reset in the "hard left" position.

The new up/down rudder pulls and cleat system steals some space from the far forward "deck trays". I am not a fishing guy, so this doesn't effect me at all. But this might be bad news if you are in the habit of placing gear in those trays.

CLICK & GO DRIVE:
Other than the lower, more stable keel, Hobie's new Click & Go is the best feature of them all! Even with my older Mirage drive, attachment is a quick click! This is VERY handy when I'm navigating a feeder stream and need to negotiate around a very shallow log jamb. With the old hull it'd take me a minute or two, and sore fingers, to get down into the drive well and turn the cams while sitting in the boat. (When a drive is present it adds about a 1/4 inch obstruction that projects below the keel plus flippers that project out horizontally. Both tend to hang-up on underwater sticks and logs). Now, with the new Click & Go, I can unclamp and remove the drive in less than 15 seconds. I should add that I always tether my drive to the yak so I won't lose an unmounted drive in the drink if I flip over since I'd hate to deep-six $400 worth of equipment!

Once in a great while the Click & Go unclamps on its own. But one can reset the drive and re-clamp it in seconds. I can do both (reset and clamp) with just my feet. The re-clamping is done with the heals of your feet.

I am a little surprised that with my old drive mounted, my left peddle still hits the hull when set to the last notch for tall people (I'm 6'-3"). I would have though Hobie could have widened the clearances a bit more in the new hull. On the other hand, I think the newest drives that come with most '09 Outbacks actually have more peddle clearance. Fortunately I do well with the peddles set back one notch back from max.

BIGGEST PROBLEM:
I have one complaint that effects me every time I go to a lake. Hobie's designers apparent forgot that the Stow & Go Rudder system is heavier than the older simpler rudder. That small mistake makes loading my Outback onto my trailer much harder. Why? Cuz the two center hull carrying handles (both right and left) apparently remain in the same location as on the older hull. When I lift the hull by these handles to place on my trailer, the rear part of the hull, now heavier, sinks down. These handles were perfectly balanced on the old hull. But now they fail to balance the new hull. I may have to add another handle a bit to the rear of one of the existing handles to compensate. In the mean time I simply stash my cart (I have the old style cart with the removable golf cart wheels) in the front hatch to even up the balance. If I don't do that, loading my Outback is amazingly klutzy'er.

OVERALL:

Congrats, Hobie, on making the '09 Outback a much better yak.

Thomas

_________________
Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

Excellent review!

Good to hear it from the perspective of someone who can make such a detailed and informed comparison on the older and newer models.

Well written, and good to hear the new model satisfies!

_________________
Brett Ozanne

www.yakass.net - www.sailpower.com.au - www.westernangler.com.au

www.yakfishwest.com

Great report.

One comment on the above. No two boats have the same balance point. The plastic flow is not perfectly consistant. Then different hardware, accessories and a little water in the boat or wind will also change the balance. I find that I use one handle to lift and keep the other hand free to slide fore and aft a bit for balance. I find that I often have to move that (free) hand several times to balance for changing conditions... wind especially.

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)

Thomas,
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but your original "'07" OB was more than likely an '06 model, rather than the '07. The '07s were the first ones to have the completely redesigned hull, loss of the well right behind the seat, etc., etc.

Anyway, have a look at my post where I compared the 2006 (and earlier models) hull with the 2007 (and later) hulls, and let me know what you think.
Best,
Dick

http://www.hobiecat.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=4969

_________________

Hi! Thanks for the feedback!

Matt...

The back area of my hull is consistently heavier, wind or no wind. So the prob could possibly be a mold issue. The inside hull remains very dry even after rather wet 35 mph wind conditions, so water isn't the prob. I wonder if other 09 Outback users are experiencing the same unbalance when using the middle handles?

Dick...

You are right. I kept thinking that I had my kayak for about 2 years, so I counted back two years from '09. Duh! Should have counted back from '08!

WIDER HULL?

I forgot to mention something that surprised me. When I went to pick up my new hull, I put it on my trailer's "J" racks as usual, and found to my disbelief that the straps that worked so well on my '06 hull were now too short! Had to buy longer straps. Is the '09 Outback THAT much wider than the older hull? Sure doesn't look any wider.

Thomas

_________________
Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

Thomas - I noticed the same thing. Soon as I picked up the kayak using the holds, the rear end instantly nose dived toward the ground. It won't take long to get used to handling the kayak though - just have to get used to new balancing points. Heck, my old Outback didn't have ANY handles so just having some is a big improvement.

RESHAPED HULL
Having been used to the old rocking hull, I was concerned that it might not be so easy to lean the new 2009 Outback. It was easy to lean the old hull several inches in the air thereby forcing a wave under the kayak rather then let it slap the side causing splash. Happily, I tried out my new 2009 today and found it still easy to lean. It does seem a little more stable too. I didn't detect the 09 hull being any slower than the old hull. Bow splat? Jury is still out on that. I'll need more time to evaluate. Little 6" chop today with 15-20 mph winds didn't get me wet. If I was going into a 2 foot chop and the winds were blowing, I'd be getting sprayed from the old hull. My concern was the 09 Outback might be sitting significantly lower in the water with the new hull design. Thankfully, it looks like the sides of the 09 are just as high as the old 03 which means for the most part, a high and dry trip which is part of the reason why I got the Outback. Got to be comfy if you spend a lot of time in it. Hard to be comfy with a wet butt. Hard to be comfy if you have to wear rubber pants to keep dry.

SEAT
The new seat design did feel a bit uncomfortable. Time will tell. For some reason, it felt like I was squished in more than in the old seat. It might be a matter of adjustment. I was also concerned that the bottom of my thighs would be slapping the hull due to the rear position being so much lower than the rest of the hull. This was not the case. I felt very comfortable with the leg position and stroke range.

RUDDER
Not sure whether it is a fluke or not, but I did not have to put the rudder line in the cleat. I pulled on the rudder down line and let the line go back to the hole. Rudder stayed down and worked great. I was afraid the down rudder line would have to be across the tray all the time but so that isn't necessary. The ease in which the rudder now goes up and down has vastly improved. I like it. I'd rather have a little line in one tray with an easy to work rudder system. When you're worried that either the line or your wrist is going to break to put the rudder up and down, then there is a problem. Again, nice improvement with the rudder system. I only hope that the innerds are built tough so lines don't break.

DECK
I really miss the old rear deck configuration where the indentation was cut to fit a nice sized cooler (came with the kayak) with the rest of the rear deck was elevated and had bungee cords. Now the majority of the rear deck is indented. Everything I threw in the back of the kayak got wet today. Maybe the scupper hole plugs will make a difference in keeping it dry. Never worried about plugging holes in the old Outback. Looks like I'll have to find or fabricate a box to fit in the large recess so I can store things in it (dry). What are the rest of you doing with the big hole in the back of the Outback? The rear hatch is useless for access while underway. I do however like the hatch between the legs. What is everyone doing to keep things from sliding to the front or rear?

I also miss having the bungee cords on the front of the deck so I can easily store things I keep nearby but never want to use, like a pump and paddle float (not that I'll ever use'em). If conditions are bad enough that they caused the Outback to flip, that would not be a good time to open up the big front hatch cover to get out the paddle float... With no bungee cords up front, I will have to put more stuff in the back. But, because the bungee chords in the back are way up in the air because the deck there is recessed, the bungee stretch factor of holding down things to the deck is worthless. I really don't want to put important things inside the hull, especially since it appears they easily move around due to lack of bulkheads. I went to get my phone which I put in the middle hatch and it was gone - had to open up the rear hatch to get it. There will be some things to get use to and methods to work out on how and where to store things but these are just personal preferences.

I like the way the new hatch covers work with a twist. Not sure how well they are sealed - haven't had a chance to see how much water is in the hull after having water sheet over the front of the kayak due to large waves. So far though, not a drop of water in the hull. That is a good sign!

DRIVE UNIT
I'm with Thomas on this - the new attachment system is great. So far so good. It will be interesting to see if over time whether the clipping mechanism wears down so it won't stay clamped. It worked flawlessly today, easy in, easy out with no adjustments or reclamping necessary. In my old unit, there was considerable play in the drive unit (maybe due to wear). This one didn't have any play in it and it operated so quietly it was unbelievable. Guess I'm use to the old stainless system that was more noisy. Using the standard masts, the kayak was moving along between 3-4 miles per hour which I suspect is about standard for the Outback. If you want speed, get an Mirage Adventure. Another drive unit change is to the mold of the rollers the cables work on. They have been redesigned to eliminate stress points at the cable connections. Smart move.

Matt, I'm really impressed with all the enhancements. Can't wait to get back out on the waters pedaling again. I wish you, everyone at Hobie and all the readers here a Happy New Year!

Hi Rnykster

I just got a new hull, not a whole new kayak set-up, so I use the older seat style -- the one with the backpack and the 2 water bottle holders. To store my bilge pump, I just loosened the backpack from the seat back (adjustable straps hold the backpack to the seat back) and stuck the pump between them. It's now in easy reach whether I grab it from my seat or from the water after a spill. Yes, storing a bilge bump within the hull or too far from your reach CANNOT be good form!

My older Outback had no bungee cord straps on the deck anywhere forward of the seat either. But in a pinch I would consider using the short forward hatch bungee tie down and/or the fabric hatch hinges if need be as an attaching point (just be careful not to compromise the hatch's waterproof seal).

Normally that's where I string a bow rope (actually it's a dog leash!). I simply snap one end of the leash to the bow pad eye, then carefully fold the rest of the bow leash under the short hatch tie down bungee in such a way that it will not tangle if I have to grab it while in the water. I have a similar setup with the stern leash as well. The front leash should make it easier to tow the boat as I swim to shore after a dump. The rear leash is there so any paddling partner can grab it (from the water or from in their kayak) if they need a tow from me for some reason.

I carry my "clam shell" phone in a "clam shell" waterproof bag that I hang around my neck. That way it's always with me if I need to use it, either when in the boat or even after a dump. I can dial and take calls without taking the thing out of the bag, so hopefully the electronics are safe (so far so good, but I've yet to actually submerge it to test the bag!). It is a bit of a pain to have the phone dangling from the neck when on shore prepping the yak, but it does not interfere when I'm on the water.

The middle hatch is the only useful hatch reached directly from the seat. I usually squeeze a rectangular shaped insulated fabric lunch tote in it. I keep some trail mix, my kayak hat and an ice cold bottle of water in it. The water stays cold for a much longer time if left in this pack (4+ hours) And everything stays together so all I have to do is grope around inside the hull for the tote or the tote's carrying strap if the bag shifts to some other spot. The bag is just small enough to get through the hatch but large enough that it will not migrate into the smaller recesses of the hull. I have yet to loose it in there, but have to remember to take it out before I flip the boat to attach the wheels to the underside.

BTW, someone on this forum posted a very clever way to keep things from migrating too far from their hatch. If I recall this right, he simply drilled a few very small holes in the plastic trim UNDER the hatch. Then he'd store items in netted bags that he simply tied to the hatch area using small straps or bungees that hook into the little drilled holes. I think he even used color coded straps so if he wanted a certain bait, he'd just pull the yellow strap till it emerged through the hole.

We have 8 inches of ice on the local lakes here. It'll be a while before I can hit the water again.

Thomas

_________________
Absolute kayaking corrupts absolutely.

G'Day Rnykster and welcome back!
At the end of 06 when I first found out about Hobie kayaks and this forum I read all of your posts as part of my pre-purchase research. I appreciated the info you shared about your experiences with the mirage drive. Though it wasn't all positive it did assist me in making my purchase. In March 07 we got our Tandem and about a year later I got an AI, followed recently by another AI. We have had many great adventures in our kayaks! I also commute to work twice a week in my Adventure and am convinced that the Mirage Drive allows me to reach my destination no matter what the conditions.
I look forward to your future posts!

Ditto -- it's good to see you back.

Nice write up. I also prefer the older seat and have managed to trade or procure one or two that I use regularly.

To better secure your gear in the hold, a few members are using something like a rubber bath mat or some other grippy fabric. All the 8" hatches come with small holes under the seals that are designed to anchor gear. I use some old spectra to lasso over emergency line, sailing gear and such that I don't want to forget. In the picture you can see where the holes are positioned.


If you want a forward bungee system, you can easily mount 4 padeyes, 2 forward and 2 aft of the front hatch, one near each respective corner, get some bungee material and mount hooks similar to the rear deck system. You can easily keep this under the rail level so no rigging should interfere with sliding the boat inverted.

I prefer this style padeye through-bolted for strength:


The bungee hooks are really slick -- you can adjust the length of your bungee. The material routes through it as illustrated below:


Hobie stocks all the parts or you can build a comparable system from your local marine hardware.