Just added SX wings, need advice about main cleat position

I have sailed the 18's without wings for many years. 20 years ago I drilled and tapped a "halfway" hole on the lower mainsheet block's cleat bracket, that has allowed me to cleat off and not hand hold the main during long race legs etc. that will still release with a small flick of the mainsheet. My body position relative to the mainsheet cleat really remains pretty much the same whether sitting in, or on the wire...
BUT I'm thinking that there will be a considerable difference in the way the main cleats and uncleats from the wings...they sit so much higher than I would be, if I was on the wire. Am I just imagining a problem that doesn't even exist, or should I be making some pre-season adjustments...I don't want to waste time the first day, fooling with something that you magnum and SX sailors also refined 20 years ago. It seems that the two positions are so different that you might have to pick one or the other, probably giving the quick release from the wing position priority.

You are correct, I split the difference, and practice giving the main sheet a whip to un cleat. Remember sometimes you will be in on the tramp and you do not want to fight to cleat. Kind of sucks but you get used to it, I love my wings.

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Bodhisatfa

I sail with mine the same, wings or not. Never noticed any difference. I have a tendancy to never cleat off the main, comes with extended ocean sailing.

I kinda agree with not cleating; but if the cleat is to low it will cleat when you least expect it and you will struggle to uncleat in big wind. This is the focus of this question.

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Bodhisatfa

You know, I don't run the original blocks, maybe thats why its not an issue for me. The old seaways were much more difficult to get set right. Are we talking about seaways or harkens or something else? Harkens are easy to adjust, seaways more difficult.

Yes, There is a difference in "cleating angles" between "wings" and "non-wings". I have two different mainsheet stacks set-up mainly for the different mainsheet line lengths required ... but the cleats are set-up different between the two also. Last year I was racing w/ my magnum wings in a local YC race and I forgot to change over to my "Mag Wing" mainsheet stack but sailed w/ my normal mainsheet stack ..... so we are double traped off the wings going to weather like a banshee and we get hit w/ a huge microburst. The bows drive down .... I'm trying to uncleat the main frantically and all its doing is bouncing on the wing as I'm lowwer then the wing itself on the wire!!!!!

The leeward hull submerged .... AaaaaOooooGgaaaaa ..... Dive, dive, dive ......

Lets just say "Circ de' Solay" came to town ..... We were the talk of the "Dinner Table" that night .... I recieved comments afterwards like .... that was you???? ... I've never seen anyone fly that far (off of a boat) before ..... Megan (my 13yr old crew) went "around the world" and I was launched and landed on the "H".

So yes you will need to adjust your "cleating" angles of your mainsheet blocks ... of course pitchpoles can be ..... exciting.

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11

I sailed on a boat a little while ago where the owner normally ran his main blocks off the front bale, but when I set the boat up, I put them on the center bale (since that's where I normally run mine). The sheeting angle was so high that I couldn't get the sheet to cleat until I figured out that I needed to be on the front bale. So, if you have one triple block on your boom (rather than three single blocks), you can move your top block between the different boom bales to quickly change the sheeting angle.

For example, if you normally hang your main block system from the center boom bale, you can move to the back boom bale to raise the sheeting angle up. Or move to the front boom bale to angle it down. Although I recommend a captured quick-release shackle if you plan to switch bales while on the water. Otherwise it is very easy to lose the shackle/pin.

sm

Just my opinion but I sail on my wings all the time: I use ochen blocks all around, so I cleat all the time; never a problem with releasing in a gust. I see no problem with the traveler with or without the wings; always dependent on the apparent wind speed, and I let it out a little at a time to keep the boat trimmed. If I'm on the wire, I problem solve the same way.

Wyatt

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Sails off Angola, NY, Lake Erie.

I've got Oxen Blocks on the jib, and love them, but how do you rig the blocks on the main?

You just use one. I bought the adapter from my local Hobie dealer; I'll take a picture and send it to you. I've had a traveler oxen block on the boat for the last eleven years, and it makes it very user friendly, but make sure you have the mainsheet the 3/8" size they suggest as a maximum. Since we sail in fresh water, I usually carry an extra block in my tool box because every few years, one will not cleat and I have to send it in to Murray's to get it rebuilt for about $40; pretty reasonable for the convenience, and we usually get it back in ten days.

It'll take two days to get a picture. Sorry about the spelling of Oxen blocks, for some reason I had it in the back of my mind that it was spelled differently.

Do you have an extra long Ariba tiller? In lighter winds I find myself sitting all the way in front on the wings and it allows you to get there. If I take the wings off for racing, I just switch tillers.

Wyatt

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Sails off Angola, NY, Lake Erie.

One more thing. I have a triple block on the boom end and use the first bale; closest to the mast. I've experimented with the other bales, but I notice they jam the rotater.

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Sails off Angola, NY, Lake Erie.

Oxen blocks are ok when they're working properly. I used them for many years on the 18 jib sheet. I have since gone back to harken jib blocks which I prefer.

The problem with the Oxen blocks is that they are not dependable and have a tendency to fail at the worst possible time. And when they fail, they can fail to a locked position. I have personally experienced and know others that have experienced this as well where the block fails and will not un-cleat. I believe there is a small spring inside the cleat that eventually breaks and when that goes the sheave does not rotate. The only way to uncleat is to push down on the tensioned side of the sheet to drop it out of the jaws (assuming the sheet is lose enough that you can do that). Otherwise you have to cut the line. When it happens to the jib sheet, it's a major inconvience. If it were to happen to the main sheet, it would likely cause a capsize.

sm

srm,

What model Harken works on the H18 jib for replacing the Seaway? And how do I attach the bracket that slides in the track?

Thanks

I belive either the Harken Hexarachet or Autorachet with becket would work. Plus you need need the slider car and a stand-up spring. I'm sure your Hobie dealer or a place like Murrays could help you out getting what you need (looks like the parts are on page 23 or Murrays catalog or page 59 of the Hobie catalog).

I'm fairly certain you can't use the slider car off the Seaway as the block, spring, and car are all one unit. To replace the car, all you do is take the screw out of the plastic cap on the end of the jib traveler track, slide the old car out and slide the new car in.

sm

A question first ..... How does the mast rotator jam??? I use the last "boom bail and haven't had any problems. Mast rotation is induced by the mainsheet attached at an angle that puts forward pressure on the boom ..... this produces mast rotation.


An Idea: The "stock" jibsheet blocks cleat "up" and release "down" .... correct ....

I've modified mine so that the jibsheet blocks cleat "down" and release "up" ......

Works great w/ the crew forward .... but especially w/ the magnum wings. It's saved me from swimming on many occasions !!!!!!

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HarryMurphey
H-18 mag/ #9458
Fleet 54 Div 11