Hobie 16 in "open" ocean? (California Channel Islands)

Hi,

My name is James. I used to be a monohull sailor, but dock fees and the like got really expensive. I got rid of my sailboat and just crewed for a few years, but I've been wanting more and more to get a small boat, something I could trailer or car top with my gutless little scion (official safe towing capacity "0") The problem is I really like sailing the California Channel Islands out of Oxnard, and there are very few vessels small enough to be towed by my car and still make that trip safely, even given the discretion to only go on good days.

I hadn't thought to look into catamarans, but they're light, fast, and can be found very inexpensively (although I'm not sure what condition a $500 Hobie 16 will be in, but I can do basic glass repairs) and apparently people do things like that with them. Personally, I'm absolutely terrified of pitch-poling one in the middle of a shipping lane. Are my fears unfounded? Are these ok little boats to take out to the islands?

I'm not pretending they're going to be the same as keelboats in security. The other options I'm looking at right now are a laser 2 and a few kayak-sailing rigs, neither of which offer this type of mind numbing performance, but both of which I trust to either stay upright, or be something I can right in a hurry.

Thank you very much for your help and experience, and I look forward to learning more about these incredible little craft.

-- James

Im not gonna say yes or no because im not that experienced, but i have talked to many people who have sailed from Port of San Pedro to Catalina Island. Its about 29 miles i think. something around 25-30 miles. I know theres a big group who does that sail almost every year, if not every year. Im pretty sure oxnard to channel islands is less distance too. When i was in santa barbara it looked like around 15 miles to the closest island. i THINK the hobie could handle it given you had all your safety checks inline. Wouldnt worry much about capsizing or pitchpoling. With one other person you can easily right the boat and if you weigh enough you could do it on your own.

Make sure:
Your rigging is good. Especially anchor plates and bridle connections
No soft spots in hulls
Your mast is sealed and water tight. First time i capsized was in the ocean. mast wasnt sealed. Couldnt right the boat. Harbor patrol rescued us an hour later.... in the fog
You have atleast a VHF radio and a compass. A GPS and flare gun is highly recommended
You have:
spare parts incase anything breaks.
Sun screen
Food
Water
Hats

Wouldnt recomend going out alone. Have a group or a chase boat. Even after all the work ive done restoring my '71 hobie i would never do that journey alone.
Thats a basic list of things you might need. Theres probably more you could ad to that list

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1971 H16 (sail #1768)

To all of you on the Hobie Forum... I love you guys!!!
thanks for all the help!

Thank you.

Yes, Catalina is the big reach for inner islands. Anacapa is only 12 nm. It's worth pointing out that my last "big" boat was a 19' sloop, but she was also a keelboat, so putting the mast in the drink just meant I needed to release the mainsheet and we'd pop right back up again. On the flip side, I don't think she ever saw better than 6kts, and for that she'd have to be in almost 20kts of wind. I hear the hobie cats can do a hair better than that

I'm used to making the crossing, and yeah, you really don't want to head out unprotected. I've got a vhf handi-talkie, handheld gps, compass, and a 406mhz epirb. Likewise, having a 60's erra keel boat helped me learn the hard way about hull delamination, soft cores, etc, so I'm going to give whatever boat I get a good once-over before it ever sees water under my watch. I've been browsing around the forums, and there are some things I hadn't thought of. You mentioned the non-sealed mast causing problems, and that's not something I would have known to check for, so thank you. I will search the forums as I'm sure there's a used boat buyers guide somewhere with other tips specific to the hobie cats, years to look out for etc?

Now I need to hunt down wetsuits, harnesses, and life vests I plan to actually use instead of just keeping on board for uscg requirements. I'm somewhat curious what this will end up costing in full, and what considerations I'll need to make for other people coming out with me. I didn't need people to wear anything more than sunprotection before so I need to make sure I get gear which will fit the people who crew for me, or get them to get their own....

This could be exciting. I'm not really looking forward to freezing in the pacific, but man, getting out to the islands in an hour or two, laying out in a trapeze and flying over the water sounds amazing. =)

Thanks again.

-- James

You cant go wrong with a hobie. I learned to sail on monohull dhingys and would never think of going back. Slow and boring. Plus no trapeze. Trapezing off the side of a flying hull is one of the greatest things ive ever experienced.

One thing to think about: If i were you, i would go for a hobie 18. Large volume, symetrical hulls do a lot better in the ocean than the low volume, asymetrical hulls of a hobie 16. With all the ocean chop and 3+ ft swells in the ocean, the 16 is way more likely to pitchpole than the 18. Ive heard its very hard to pitch an 18 because there's so much bouyancy in the front of the hulls. Plus daggerboards = pointing alot higher. The 16 can barely point. I wouldnt even call it pointing more like a closed reach. Definetly cannot point higher than 60 degrees off the wind. Not to mention roller furling jib and inspection hatches in each hull (great for storage on your long journey) on the 18.

Just something to think about. I have been trying to find a good 18 for quite some time now. They're a little harder to come across but i think would be the better boat for ocean sailing.

Also one other recomendation. Don't go for the $500 fixer-upper. Save up for a little longer and go for the $2000+ boat that already is restored. I went down the first road and have put atleast $1k into the boat. If i would have just bought a boat for $1500 i would be much better of than i am now. Buying new parts individually adds up fast! Real Fast! Buying a slightly more expensive boat usually already has all the new(ish) parts you would have to buy for the $500 boat. Plus they usually throw in extras like harnesses, life jackets, spare parts, etc.

My suggestion is save up atleast $2000 or $2500 (or more!) and put it into a complete package boat. You dont wanna buy all those new parts. Its a much better and smarter deal for you.

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1971 H16 (sail #1768)

To all of you on the Hobie Forum... I love you guys!!!
thanks for all the help!

Prices for used Hobies have historically been all over the board and not an accurate indication of seaworthiness. Especially in this current economy can true deals be found. I don't know how unique it is to think a couple minor repairs should be expected. I mean, even a cracked gudgeon shouldn't be a deal breaker.

My brother just bought a H18 for $250. I've been around sailboats all my life and my father used to run a boatyard and I've worked in other boatyards. Plus I raced cats for 12 yrs. I say the boat he just boat is in very good condition. All that was needed was a mast base hinge, mast bearing, and one access port gasket. It has 2 pukas in the stbd daggerboard trunk, and the boards need minor repair. Way less than a qt of resin and a scrap of 'glas cloth and 4 hours for the repairs.

Recently I saw a H16 for $300. All it needed was two rudders. Even the rudder lock downs didn't need service. I don't need another boat but I had a look anyway.

In San Die Go there are 2 H18s in CL right now. From the descriptions and pictures, they looked worth a look. Asking price was right too.

Fixed it for your safety.

J

do ya think Jeremy has seen a few new sailors sitting on the water, wide eyed in wonder,masts laying on the tramp, and wondering "wha happened"

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If the grass is greener on the other side of the fence, maybe it is time to water your own lawn.

Happened last weekend at a regatta:

Luckily it was a regatta and we had boats available to tow people in.

I've spoken to guys who've made the crossing in a flotilla of 16s and doubled up the shrouds as insurance, but that may have been overkill. Said the fastest crossing from Malibu to Twin Harbors was 3.5 hours, the slowest was 11 hours.

I say:
1. Do it on an 18.
2. Do it first as crew to learn from another's experience.
3. Replace all the standing rigging (anchor pins, shrouds) on whatever you buy.
4. Make sure the rest of the boat is in tip-top shape. Hobie parts are easier to find and more plentiful.

Go for it.

So 10 out of 10 boats require new standing rigging? As a noob to the H18 I'm serious in asking. But as a long time sailor on many different hull types I must question that satanding rigging be replace every x amount of years. Any knowledge you can impart I am most welcome. yarggh

I get a few calls a day from people that, "just got a new boat off of Cragslist for $300 ($500, $800, $1000, whatever)", and wonder if I'd take a look at it for them. Yes, 10 out of 10 boats off of CL need new rigging. I have yet to see a boat for under $1000 that has had its rigging replaced in the past 2 years. Has anyone else ever seen a boat with new rigging on CL for less than $1000?

I go into my standard safety spiel about spending the night in 52 degree water, boats getting washed up on rocks etc, etc, you need new rigging blah, blah, blah. Most of them listen, the ones that don't are just toying with disaster. I've got a mast here right now that I"m putting a new forestay on that I need to drill out the rivets in the jib hal pulley, telling me that the forestay at least has never been replaced since 1975. Looking at the single swaged shrouds, I assume the same for the shrouds, but they look fine to the customer, and the customer is always right. Toying with disaster if you ask me.

Deals off of ebay? People tell me all the time that they can save $5 off of ebay. So you mean you're going to trust your life to something made by some dude in his garage? Good luck with that. I've seen 3 new ebay shrouds fail right out of the box so far. And, geeez, why would anyone buy used rig off of Ebay, it's being sold for a reason. IT"S USED!

I work safety boat at a lot of regattas and get to see what fails and what it looks like when it fails. My shop is right on the beach and I get the pile of boat parts hauled up on the launch ramp when something goes wrong. I have been the 'guest expert' for Coast Guard and local Harbor Patrol, and have gone out on SARs, and seen it all go wrong.

Conversely, I've seen it all go right, a lot. There's nothing like flying a spin as high as you dare in Santa Cruz 20+, or being trapped out with a good friend while blasting along the lake... having a boat in good condition is a good place to start that kind of sail. Start ahead of the 8-ball, not behind it.

How often? Check your rig every time and replace it if you see anything funky. Hobie says every 2 years no matter what.

Bare minimum for your 18 without looking. You need new anchor pins.

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James,

This topic has been talked about before on this forum. Please see the attached link:

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11572

Safety first and experience with cats are a must before attempting a crossing like this. You don't want to end up as another sad ending story on the 11:00 news. Good luck in your quest.

JB

A Hobie is unlike other sailboats in that the rig is loose. This looseness puts stress on the standing rigging other sailboats don't experience by going from slack to tight over and over. Jeremy didn't mention in his post that anchor pins are the number one reason for dismasts he sees. The wisdom imparted by others here is that once a stainless steel anchor pin bends it becomes more brittle and is just a matter of time until it snaps, which is why checking the pins is important.

A personal anecdote, the second day of sailing after buying a 1981 16 a shroud unraveled. The mast didn't fall, but it wrecked the weekend waiting for new shrouds to arrive in the mail from the dealer. In my two times sailing in Santa Barbara I've seen two dismasts - a 1975 16 had a bridal tang fail, and a 1987 18 had an anchor pin fail. Add the rescue cost to having to replace the standing rigging anyway. Also, it should go without saying that equipment failure in the open ocean on a small boat is not like your car breaking down - people die of exposure on the water.

It's better to have what you don't need than to need what you don't have.

Just wanted to say thanks for all the advice, including the link. I apologize, as I searched before posting this, but apparently didn't do so very well.

I'll see about hunting down a few short costal sails with someone who already knows what they're doing, and then see if I can catch a ride out to the islands later on.

Thanks.

-- James

James: Having done some open ocean sailing on both the H16 and H18, I would definitely second the recommendation to go for the Hobie 18. If you can, look for the Hobie 18SX with the wings. That'll make your long-distance crossing to the islands more comfortable and safer. In fact, my avatar is of an H18 with wings, beach camping in Southern France. Some of the best times of my life.

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-Roland
Sailing vintage Hobie Cats in West Africa.