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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 3:18 pm 
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I recently installed a set of SX wings on my Hobie 18...they are nice for some obvious reasons..but I really notice how far forward I have to be in light air, to counteract the extra mass of the wings(which is all aft of center), and get my hull trim back to where I think it should be.
I guess moving my mast rake forward, would be the place to start. Has anyone already gone through this process.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:09 pm 
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No... don't rake to compensate. Once you get sailing with speed in a breeze you will want the mast and weight aft. Sailing on the wings makes an 18 sail more like a 16... the bows get driven down hard.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:51 pm 
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Yes, the balance is great when the wind is over 10k. Right now, in light air, the hull is trimmed the best ( boat showing like 3 inches of bow above the waterline) when the crew sits on the SX wing section that extends forward of the front crossbar, and I move up and in on the tramp. Is that where we belong now??.
Now that you mention it, I have seen a lot of 16 race crews sitting on the hull completely in front of the tramp and leaning back against the front crossbar in light air. Is that what you are referencing. And thank you for the reply.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:32 am 
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Yes... That would be normal. Weight moves forward in lighter air and for downwind sailing. Then watch the bows and start moving aft as they get driven down by higher winds.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:55 pm 
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Matt gave you the best advice. I always start sitting on the front of the wing (or the bow in really light air), then move back in a series of inches as the leeward bow starts going underwater.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:14 pm 
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I had not seen this thread until scanning now. This reminds me of a sail a couple weeks ago in my SX18 when I combined total weight (3 people) at 550 lbs, 15 knots and small waves. Normally I don't sail this heavy but I raked the mast as far back as I could to the bottom holes in the sideplates. The boat performed beautifully!! We had 400 lbs on the wings and 150 lbs on top of the hull. We were not forced to go way back.

I've heard too much mast rake is not good on an 18 SE but what about on a heavy SX--by heavy I don't mean the wing weight but the load you can carry.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:28 pm 
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I would have gone the other way and made sure the mast was upright and the downhaul loosened for more power. Just be careful about those wings; they are rated for 450 lbs, but I have never had more than 350 on them and already they had to be repaired by welding twice.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:49 pm 
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Matt, I also overloaded my H18 magnum wing and snapped the front outer support bracket.This is the portion of the front wing arm that runs from the bottom of the wing to the hull. I'm not sure if mine can be welded again, based on previous repairs at same spot. If weld can not be made, would it be feasible to remove the entire front leg and replace it with a SX forward leg (PN 68101001)?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:03 am 
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If yours was "Magnum" and welded on... the legs are different from the SX, but maybe a fabrication shop could do something. A sleeve inside the leg and rivits?

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:16 am 
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That's exactly how they do the repairs; they cut it and place a reinforcing sleeve inside it, then weld it. The problem is that the heat used to produce the weld spot also makes the surrounding aluminum brittle. So, there comes a point, where it just cannot be repaired anymore.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:11 pm 
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That is not correct. Thru proper annealing and heat treating the aluminum can be brought back. Its got something to do with the metal relaxing, realigning and then heat curing again. The issue seems to be getting the anodizing back after the heat treat. I would think chemical dipping the wing, repairing and re-anodizing. Not all metal shops have the ability to heat treat, there are even techniques for heat treating in a pizza oven but you must know the temps, times and cooling procedure. Its not something you can do yourself. I have seen wings that were repaired and then reinforced with gusset plates to make it stronger than original but heavier.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:17 am 
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Repairing aluminum and magnesium - I am not an engineer, however a long time ago, I worked in a metal fab shop where they specialized in Al and Mag. The essence of the problem is that where Al and Mag are welded (i.e. where sudden high temperatures are applied), the molecular structure needs to cool down SLOWLY, otherwise the metal turns brittle. I was told that the way to do this is to place the newly welded Al or Mag in an oven, around 500F, and slowly drop the temp over the next (?) 24 hours. That allows the metal to 'cure' without getting 'cold' too quickly. Guys like Matt B. and Caleb will have more technical answers.

The biggest challenge, I find, with Magnum and SX18 wings is untrained crew. NEVER help the Hobie ashore by LIFTING on the wings, that will crack the joint, on the underside of the wing tube, where the leg joins the wing. The wings were never designed for an UPWARD force, they were only designed for compression.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:33 am 
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Quote:
T6 Heat Treatment is a specific heat treatment process which may be applied to aluminum / copper / silicon alloys, such as hypereutectic, to increase the strength of the alloy by as much as 30%. In the case of T6 heat treatment, the process occurs in two phases.

The First Phase of T6 heat treatment is called the Quench Phase. In this phase the alloy is heated to 920 degrees Fahrenheit for 9 hours causing the copper in the alloy to become dissolved in the aluminum and forming what is called a "Single Phase Alloy". If allowed to air cool naturally, the copper will tend to reconstitute, or reform itself within the alloy. However, when the heated alloy is cooled rapidly by water quenching the reformation of the copper is retarded and the aluminum, supersaturated with copper, is locked into the "Single Phase Alloy" state.

Precipitation
In the Second Phase of the T6 heat treatment process, called the Aging Phase, the alloy is heated to 350 degrees Fahrenheit for 10 hours and then allowed to air cool. During this phase the copper combines with the aluminum in a process called "precipitation hardening" to form a copper aluminum crystal, CuAl2. It is the formation of these copper aluminum crystals which gives the alloy its strength.

The key to maximizing alloy strength comes from controlling the size of the copper / aluminum crystals. Maximum strength is attained when the size of the crystals, or precipitated particles, is kept very small forcing them to conform to the structure of the aluminum.

The end result is an aluminum alloy, or hypereutectic piston, that is up to 30% stronger.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:36 am 
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I had no idea on any of this: I'm a sailor with a business background that just enjoys polishing and sailing. How do you find people to do this?

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Wyatt wrote:
How do you find people to do this?


Call around to metal fabricators in your area. If they can't do the heat treating and anodizing, hopefully they know shops that can. The tough part is usually finding someone who is willing to do work on one part for a reasonable price. Small custom jobs are generally not worth it for big shops and unfortunately, they're the ones that have the specialized equipment.

sm


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