Mast float alternative?

Hi,

Are there any decent alternatives to the Bob mast floats? I'm new to the scene and have an H-14. I was going to get a Baby Bob but then found out it was 1.2Kg/2.6lbs!
I sail on my own and step my mast alone without any gadgets except for the link pin.

I tied a 1.25kg weight to the end of my mast and although I can just about lift it, it's not something I'd want to do repeatedly! I can see me losing it one day and the whole mast come crashing down.

Currently I'm using a 5Litre/1.3 Gallon bottle tied to the halyard. It doesn't look very good and doesn't displace as much as the Bob.

Are there any more permanent better looking alternatives? And why is the Bob made so heavy? I'd rather get something that looks like a Bob but is only as strong and as thick as a plastic bottle, weighs nothing at all, and can be replaced cheaply and easily. Any ideas?

Have you considered no float? I've sailed H16 & H17 solo for over 20 years, each without a bob or float. I've capsized many times and turtled several. Recovering from a turtle isn't all that difficult and at times turtling can be a good thing.

Why o Why do you need a mast float on a Hobie 14 unless you weigh a 100lbs or less I can not think of a good reason
I have turned over most all sizes of the Hobies and many of those other cats never never using mast bobs floats water holders
Turning a cat is a matter of practice and really good righting hardware (store bought)
Gary
That being said I do have a shroud extenders for my Hobie 21 SE that have never been used

Mainly because I'm a real novice and doing this all by myself so really trying to avoid any situations where I get stuck in the middle of the lake and trying to flag down some fellow sailor to help me. I have no idea how hard or easy things are so rather be safe than sorry.

[EDIT]
Here is an update, I got myself the Easy Rite system and tried righting today in a decent wind and got it up within seconds. The last time without wind it was difficult but this time the second the wind got the sail, up she came. This is good, as I don't think I'll capsize in light winds I'm happy I can right this baby solo so now I can really start going fast!
[/EDIT]

I tried righting my 14 the other day on my own in very light winds and couldn't do it. I'm usually 64kgs/140 lbs (67kg at the moment because of Christmas ). My brother in-law tired it and he got it back up very quickly on his own. He's 87kg/191 lbs So I'm either doing it wrong or just don't have the weight. I was bouncing and leaning but couldn't get it to shift. I can't even purposely capsize it on my own by leaning it, so can't imagine I'd have the weight to right it.

So I thought maybe I'll try getting a Bob and a bucket. The Bob so I've got some time and to help me get an initial horizontal angle with the mast. After discovering that the Bob is so heavy I've changed my mind. I did see another post on this board about a 140 lbs guy being able to right solo with a Bob. I understand that the Bob is extra weight against you but if you can just get the tip out of the water then you are pretty much on your way.

Anyway I'm going to do without. The lagoon I'm learning on is very shallow so you'll probably hear of my 'mast stuck in the mud' story soon

xnomad: To answer your original question, I don't think there are any commercial alternatives out there. I'm using a couple of gallon orange juice jugs on my daughter's Hobie 14, because I didn't want to deal with the weight (or cost) of a bob.

Now the rest of my $0.02 worth: You are wise to proceed with caution. My daughter's Hobie 14 goes turtle quicker than any other cat I've ever seen, and it's not as easy as many (including myself before actually trying it) assume it would be to right. (Yes, the mast is empty and sealed.) I can right it without an aid from a normal capsize position at about 175 lbs. But we sail primarily on a shallow reservoir with a muddy bottom, so, if a cat goes turtle, it's usually stuck to the point of requiring power assistance. (Thus the orange juice jugs!) The 14 is also kind of unstable (very sensitive to weight placement/hard to balance) when trying to unturtle or right. In my experience, my Hobie 16 is much easier to deal with in such situations, which is counter-intuitive considering its additional weight, mast length, etc.

I'd be interested to hear others' opinions who have actual experience with the Hobie 14 specifically, not just cats in general. I've done a lot of sailing and righting on different cats, and the Hobie 14 really surprised me in this respect. (Guess we should move this to the 14 forum?).

Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi

The Hobie bob isn't going to make your boat any easier to right (harder actually) it'll just prevent the boat from going turtle. So if you aren't heavy enough to right the boat without a bob, then having a bob is just added weight at the top of the mast.

That said, there is a technique to righting the boat. If you don't get it turned the right way, it can be darn near impossible to get her up regardless of how much you weigh. Having the bob will buy you more time to get the boat spun around on its side without worring about going turtle. Having more breeze actually makes righting the boat easier because the wind under the sail will help lift the boat back up (like a waterstart in windsurfing).

There was a long time when there was no such thing as a bob, and we managed OK. The most important things are to have a completely sealed mast and to know how to right the boat properly.

sm

Time spent recovering a 14 from turtle probably equals the time it would take to spin the boat around, mast to wind (if you had a bob). Always start on the leeward stern and as the hull gets significantly out of the water, move up the hull, to the forward pylon, and keep leaning back with pressure on the righting line. From turtle to righting (the 14) is like one continuous motion.

_________________
Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

Any recommendations on how to properly seal the mast? I flipped my 16 for the first time the other day and it filled with water.

For sealing a mast. If it is filling up with water fast, the water is most likely going in the center of the rivits because rivit casings were not used when the mast was assembled. Silicone or expanding foam should do the trick. In the spring I will be able to let you know, because I found out lately that my H17Sport mast has that problem (came that way from the factory, 2004 replacement mast). This fall, after I turtled in heavy wind, I had the boat righted in ~ 5 minutes, but in that time I had about a pint of water flow into the comp tip. Sure enough when back on the trailer water came pooring out 2 of the mast tip rivits. I plan to shoot some expanding foam into one of the holes and hope to seal all of them at once.

RE: mast leaking Find a swimming pool long enough to cover entire mast sink mast and look for bubbles
RE: righting a small Hobie Are you people just riding these boats to turtle
as soon as you go over get off boat and begin prep for righting turn all ropes loose make sure the traveler is loose get your hands on your store bought quality proven righting system and get the mast out of the water
RE: Hobie 14 unstable ?
it is a high performance boat however just watch your trim and balance and things should be ok I have never had any problem in my days with this classic Hobie

Maybe you guys should seek some advise form an old hand in your area on the righting of the
Hobie 14 or the 14 Turbo

ditto that, try sailing any high performance dinghy, makes the 14 seem like a barge

_________________
Sheet In...Max Out
www.fleet297.org
sailflatlands at gmail dot com

I was just trying to relay my experience to the OP, so that he proceeds with some caution before getting himself in a situation he can't handle. With the tone of some of these replies, I feel the need to clarify....



Re: Righting: Not sure what you mean with the first part, but I'll take it as friendly sarcasm. My daughters 14 goes turtle quicker than one can do all the things you suggest. I agree they are the things to do, but if the masthead gets stuck in the mud 20 feet down, none are going to help a bit. That's why I wanted to caution the OP, who also specified he sails in shallower waters.

RE: Hobie 14 unstable ? If you'll read my frst post, I was indicating that it's relatively unstable when trying to unturtle or right (i.e., when it's on its side or thereabouts). It's very sensitive to fore-aft balance. Weight a little to far fore or aft will sink that end fairly quickly causing one to lose balance, fall, and start all over or really have to fight to stay standing up. This is very tiring, which hinders further efforts. (I agree that it's VERY stable when it's upside down!)

I am the 'old hand' in my area, but am fairly new to the 14. I'm glad to hear that you have sailed one, at least, because many of the replies here were generic or regard righting other boats. As stated earlier, I have much less difficulty with my 16, which is surprising to me.

My mast is totally empty and sealed. Anybody got other ideas why it turtles so quickly?

Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi

Thanks, J_Eaton, I'll pactice that under controlled conditions when it gets warmer. I know it's easier said than done, though. First of all, I guess I need to wear shoes for clamoring around on that skinny keel. Secondly, I use a single line tied to the front beam near the mast base for righting. It sounds like I'd be better off with one that's tied both fore and aft to help with balancing during this maneuver. I think that's my biggest problem....maintaining balance to keep the the maneuver progressing, rather than losing it and having to start over.

Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi

Two thoughts come to mind...

1) The mast is fairly short relative to the width of the boat, which means that even when the boat is on it's side, it is leaning over farther than boats with longer masts. Also, if the shrouds are loose (which is the way many 14 sailors rig the boat) this will cause the hull platform to lean over even farther when the boat is on it's side.

2) The mast is a pretty small cross section, so it offers less bouyancy than bigger masts and therefore less resistance to sinking and going turtle.

sm

3) You sit on the upper hull too long after the capsize? You have to get off the upper hull and the mast / sail right away.

4) You don't get right up on the hull and lean on the righting line.

5) You don't get the boat to spin to get the mast upwind fast enough

6) You sail in an area with current?

_________________
Matt Miller
Former - Director of Parts and Accessory Sales
Warranty and Technical Support
Hobie Cat USA
(Retired 11/7/2022)