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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:59 pm 
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hobie18rich wrote:
Daisy said she would write the check.
Matt whats your account number?

Nice try.


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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm
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Location: Northfield Minnesota
hobie18rich wrote:
Can I get a wing for my Tiger?



Being a trailer sailor, for me the biggest pain in the ass is the stupid mast. I gotta imagine dealing with a wing sail is hell on earth.


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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:46 am 
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Trailering might be Hell,
but sailing it would be Nirvana, Heaven and all other beautiful places combined.


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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:17 am 
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Wings aren't really new technology. Been around a long time. If it were such a great addition to a beach cat we'd probably see more of them other than a couple of A-cats (has there been more than one?), and the C-class.


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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:04 am 
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Location: Oshkosh, WI
Pretty cool to see multi-hulls in the AC... Lets see some actual competition....or maybe some video of louis vitton action? Anybody have video of some cat races? I'd love to see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:13 am 
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Location: Santa Cruz
Jeremy Leonard wrote:
Let’s face it, having the next America’s Cup in San Francisco would be pretty incredible. I envision Crissy Field, The City Front, Treasure Island, The East Bay shores, Sausalito and every other beach, island and bridge stacked with spectators in what would be one huge nautical coliseum. The course: like a 3 bridge Fiasco on steroids perhaps? Who knows? I picture big high-tech boats in 25 knots and that infamous short-chop that The Bay is known for. We’ll see.

In the past, Larry Ellison has said that possible venues for the next Cup include Newport, San Francisco and San Diego, but after today’s awards ceremony at the San Francisco City Hall, both Ellison and Mayor Newsom made it clear that they want the Cup to be held here here SF. Just before giving the Key to the city to Ellison, Mayor Newsom began the ceremony by saying, “…so it is right and proper that not only we celebrate today’s accomplishment, but the hope and expectation that the effects of this Cup will continue here. I’ve got friends in San Diego, I know the governor may be here from Rhode Island… we’re gonna make a very strong case for San Francisco.” Having the mayor on your side is a great place to start.

Ellison followed, “…this has always been my favorite place to sail. What other place in the world can you get 28 knots of breeze, everyday, guaranteed, it’s a fantastic place…We’ll look forward to hosting Team New Zealand, Team South Africa, the Swedes and the Brits, the French, the Chinese, the Italians, all of those teams from all over the world once again will be competing for the oldest trophy in sport, The America’s Cup! We’ll be competing in your city.”

Barring the fine print, it sounds like the deal is sealed. San Francisco it is!

There was however one guy in the rather large crowd in the Rotunda that was there to hand-deliver a letter written by Rhode Island’s Governor to Ellison arguing that the Cup should be brought back to his state. Rhode Island State officials were banking on their state’s rich nautical heritage, and the open waters of Narragansett Bay to lure Ellison and the BMWO Racing Team to their waters for the 34th America’s Cup. And who could think of a better messenger than Halsey Herreshoff, grandson of Captain Nat, marine architect, navigator for the defense of several America’s Cups, and president of the America’s Cup Hall of Fame in Bristol? Herreshoff has quite an impressive sailing resume and family sailing history to say the least.

It just so happened that Mr. Herreshoff was sitting at the table next to me at the StFYC, so I waited for him to finish lunch and nabbed him for a quick interview. As we shared a drink, and he told sea stories, I was transported from the era of carbon fiber and court dates to wooden boats and hard sailors… and as different as those eras are, it all seems to come together and find a commonality around the America’s Cup.

JL: What’s your assessment of the 33rd America’s Cup?

HH: I just got back from Valencia, from seeing the races and I enjoyed tremendously the technology.

JL: Your Family has a great history of advancing sailing technology, especially the multihull Amaryllis, somewhat an ancestor of the BMWO 90.

HH: Quite right!

JL: Tell me a little about it.

HH: When my grandfather was 26 years old, he made an amazing trip around the Mediterranean and Rhine River and all, and that was in 1874. And I think he probably saw in the Med, some outrigger boats, which were rather like the boats in Polynesia. So that when he got back home he made a multihull model about 3 feet long, and he sailed it. And in his Memoirs he says he was astounded at how fast it went, so he started building catamarans, and he got a U.S. Patent on it in 1877. We have his patent models and the actual restoration of it, so he really was the first one to have a catamaran in America.

He went down to a race, which was the centennial of the Declaration of Independence. He went down to New York and asked if he could join this overnight race, and they told him no, we can’t have a contraption like that in here. Finally he persuaded them to let him race, and it was an overnight race, and he finished that evening and the rest came in the next morning. From then on they don’t allow catamarans to race in Long Island Sound. Then he built about twenty more of those boats. Sometimes he cruised them, sold them all. That was the beginning of it and if he were alive today, he’d be fascinated by these two boats that raced in Valencia.

JL: What do you think about the solid wing?

HH: Clearly a good idea. The fact that it was tall is important, but the main thing is that it’s much more efficient than a sail, because, one you don’t have the problem with flow over the mast, and then the fact that it is loaded up with a flap is another thing. Larry Ellison claims that it makes twice the lift of a sail plan, and that may well be true.


JL: I hear you’re here on specific business.

HH: Well, I’m here really because I’m the president of the America’s Cup Hall of Fame and I like to keep connected. I was in Valencia and it was such a thrill I decided to come both here to help celebrate and tomorrow in San Diego. But also we’d be very pleased if the America’s Cup would come to Rhode Island. At least what will come to Rhode Island I’m sure is one of the preliminary races.

JL: You were at the celebration at City Hall and heard both Ellison and Mayor Newsom? There’s a lot of weight pushing it here to the West Coast.

HH: That’s understandable. What I liked about it was that the intensions of Mr. Ellison and Russell Coutts sound very commendable. They want to have an open series with all the other countries invited and let them give input. They don’t want to have the circumstances fail where the committee that runs it isn’t under the control of anybody, and judges that aren’t under the control of anybody, all the things that should be done, which were the opposite of what Mr. Bertarelli wanted to do. I hope it all happens that way. One of the things that Russell Coutts said in Valencia after they won, was that he wanted the next one to uphold the tradition of The Cup. I think that’s important because Mr. Bertarelli wanted to cast aside the tradition and remake it in his own image. But when you have something as substantial and successful and built on tradition as the America’s Cup, I think you’ve got to be careful with changes. I think it’s better to amplify it and keep it going in the right direction.

For one thing, they want to decide what boats to use and all, and I like the role of technology, the America’s Cup has always been about the combination of design and of course sailing, and I think that’s what we want, 50% technology and 50% sailing for the match race, and I hope that that’s the way it will come out.

I don’t know if you know or not, but my family built 8 boats that defended the America’s Cup.

JL: That’s quite a history. So to you what is the spirit of the America’s Cup?

HH: I would say that the spirit and tradition of the America’s cup is that you compete very hard and part of that is that you build the best possible boat, the state of the art. The other half is to have a sailing team that can compete within the Match Race tactics, which I think is sort of the chess game of sailing. So I think we want to have both things, and I think that if it’s like Mr. Ellison’s idea that it’s on monohulls, then it’s got to be fast ones.

JL: Thanks so much for the interview.

HH: Anytime. Great to meet you.






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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:50 am
Posts: 85
Location: MacLarens Landing,Ont.
Jeremy, that was a great interview.I could sit down and talk (Gam..I think is the nautical term)with a gentleman like Hasley for hours on end about boats.Very cool.Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:46 pm
Posts: 1457
Location: Santa Cruz
robbor wrote:
Jeremy, that was a great interview.I could sit down and talk (Gam..I think is the nautical term)with a gentleman like Hasley for hours on end about boats.Very cool.Thanks.


Thanks! I have a really good time talking to guys like Herreshoff. He's got some serious street cred (What's the nautical term for street cred anyway?).


Sporting the Hobie Team Factory Jacket, myself (after some rum) and Mr. Herreshoff at the StFYC.

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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:44 am 
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Location: Oshkosh, WI
Good stuff! Thanks for sharing it!

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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:41 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:52 pm
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Ah well the 'Cup has been comprehensively decided, and congrats to the US for developing such an extraordinary boat, and to the fantastic team that brought it all together so well.
Please indulge my history for a moment. I was a 14 yo kid when Australia first tilted at the Cup. I literally crawled through the bowels of our first challenger, Gretel as she was being built. I was devastated by our losses at successive challenges, until we finally squeaked over the line with Australia 2. You can see then that I am bit of an old sentimentalist, with a fair history of watching some colourful AC challenges.
The deciding elements were probably the winged keel, and sails, if you can accept that the crews were evenly matched. Put another way, one technology prevailed over the other on that campaign.

This most recent challenge placed a huge emphasis on technology, and undeniably, legalistics (is that a word?). It is my view that aside from the extraordinary boats that sailed off, the Cup has been severely damaged. Sure, the technology that was developed and refined will trickle down in the same way as NASA's aero-space developments do. In my view that is not sufficient justification for the damage done to the traditions and original intent of America's Cup racing.

There are signs that the San Francisco challenge might return to a past format, one where various nations fight for the right to be the challenger. Will there also be rules that somehow limit the technology? I think it would be really hard to put the technology genie back in the bottle. Maybe a one-design format could be developed, and challenging countries would receive a bare hull off the same mould and their challenge would be to make the most of that hull shape?? Even then, sufficient funding would be a discriminating issue. Given that agreement could be reached upon boats, can we also limit the legal options?

That's probably more than I should write folks. I don't mean to criticise as much as comment on how I have seen the change over nearly half a century. I suggest that this challenge suffered from a perverse form of technical, fiscal and legal gluttony, and my hope is that cooler heads with an eye to the future of yachting will prevail in the next challenge.


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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:14 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
As long as we are talking history, may I present the most beautiful America's Cup Defender of all time:

Being launched May 11, 1937 at my former employer:
Image

Sailing in 1937:
Image

Sadly, she was scrapped for her metal content in WWII

However, she has been reincarnated:
Image
Image

The J-Class Yacht Ranger


Last edited by MBounds on Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 5:15 am 
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Location: Black Hills South Dakota
OK; then let's use the Hobie 16 it is one design.

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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:21 am 
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Location: Oshkosh, WI
I tend to agree that the legalistics in the most recent AC was a big deal. How much money and time was wasted in court instead of spending time on the water?

What were the "rules" for the boat? 90'x90' or something like that? Or was it just 90'?... whatever. Tri-maran vs. Catamaran with totally different sail types, crew size, etc. was a bit odd.

Both boats were cool to watch but not really a fair fight.

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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:58 am 
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The one piece of crap that I heard was that the Deed of Gift specified "that the boats shall not be more than 90' in length". This leaves the designers free to build winged keels, mono hulls, cats, tri's etc.

So one of the challengers built a boat which, when at rest, had a waterline of 110'. At measurement time, they said 'hold on', and they fired up a motor which drives a pump, and they took on water ballast at the stern. This dropped the stern, raised the bow, and Hey Presto!, the boat is now 89'11" at waterline. Bending the rules???

Imagine the cost of designing and building that. If those funds had been spent on equipping the thousands of small sailing clubs in Europe and North America with Opti's or Lasers or Waves, we'd have hundreds of thousands of young sailors coming through the ranks.......choices, all day, all these choices....

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 Post subject: Re: Americas Cup crap
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:46 am 
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I think the Americas cup is about sailing !! I say use whatever you build. Multi Hulls are more fun to watch sail. For so many years it was about one snob raceing another snob. Over all S fosset proved that multi's are faster than ANY mono, Play Station proved it in all conditions.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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