Would a TI with the main hull full of water still float?

Stringy, on my computer, it says your video is "private"--I can't see it.

I realize now that part of the flexing in the bow of the TI is due to placing the hatch opening in a smaller area than the AI. The situation may be aggravated when the TI is fully or heavily loaded with camping gear in rough waters. Again, I say that based on comments of friends in private emails--these are WaterTribe Everglades Challenge competitors. I'm not criticizing the TI as much as it sounds--I know people love their TIs, and, as fusioneng says, they are great family boats. I feel I'm just being realistic. For my wife and myself our family boat is the AI, we both have one.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

hmmm... Should be public now Keith. Haven't had that before.
The TI with nearly twice the sail area has had some teething problems. Yet if I could have just one Hobie it would be the TI.

Yes, I've looked at it--rather amazing but nicely illustrates the problem. I've referred a WaterTribe friend to your post in an effort to stop water intrusion on his TI.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Stringy, have you thought about making TI slip-on hatch covers? I would be interested for sure.

_________________
Tony Stott
2012 Tandem Island "SIC EM" with Hobie spinnaker

I have thought about adding a small siphon hose to my hull, where your forward motion in the water would help drain any water in there might be in the hull out while you are underway. Wouldn't take much to do, you could probably get by with 1/4" tubing and shaped something like a Pitot tube, I think just a T connector and some 3/8 water pipe allowing the water to run thru while you are moving forward would create enough vacuum to drain the water out. The 1/4" line would be up and out of the water so water couldn't ever go backwards into the hull. Of course it would need to be designed, but I'm just throwing the idea out there. I suspect it would only work if you doing more than about 5-6 mph
just thinkin out loud
Bob

Edit:

Actually I've been reading up on the subject, and just might do what this guy did ( http://www.saltwaterkayakfisherman.com/ ... ation.html). Been thinking about adding a regular battery and electronics (nav lights, GPS, cell phone charging, etc) anyway.

Bob! Bob! You are reaching the point of no return. You are going over to the dark side. Face it, you are a power boat!

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

No, not really Tony. Kathy quickly sewed it up just before our trip to Myall lakes back in June. She cut up an old nylon raincoat. It could be a bit tighter but we haven't bothered fixing it. Life's too busy.
A neoprene one would be better but beyond her little sewing machine's capability!

I didn't notice Stringy's comment above. Here are 2 quotes from WaterTribers who had done the EC. One is an email, the other verbal (I couldn't find the email.)

From an EC competitor:
“On the EC, we had the water intrusion issue on the bow hatch. I had seen your solution and considered doing the upgrade, but when I looked at the Hobie seal, I thought it was fine.

So I didn't do it and sure enough when we got into heavy seas off of NW Cape, we started taking in water. The boat "felt heavy" and I had to beach it and pump out. The second time I did this was just North of Middle Cape and that's when the storm hit and pinned us on the beach for 2 days….The problem we had is that once the boat starts taking on several gallons of water, the hatches become awash. At this point there is no safe way to open a hatch and use the manual lift pumps that we all carry. Open the hatch and more water comes in and worsens the problem.”

Verbal from EC competitor (I thought this was in an email, but I couldn’t find it): Referring to his overloaded TI in 1.5 ft chop, he said, “It was wallowing.” This was during a leisure camp trip, he and his partner were moving very slowly with a partially furled sail.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith,
I was referring to the private setting on YouTube.
I know from experience that the front hatch leaks ...or did until I added the hatch cover!

Stringy, you know, when I first read that I knew you were referring to your video, but this morning I read it and thought you were referring to my comment about private emails. My mistake! I still won't put the comments out by my friend who sold his TI. I do think his problem was much the same as that expressed by my EC competitor friend: when the boat is loaded down and gets in heavy seas, it begins to take on water. I believe it frighten his wife, and they sold their TI.

Keith

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Keith,
The TI isn't for everybody, but then neither is the AI. I think those that love their Islands appreciate their versatility, which over rides their shortcomings.
I've had 4 AI hulls and the one TI hull. All have leaked water in heavy conditions. Some have been drier than others though. The main leak area is the front hatch, then probably the stern rudder line exits.
The TI did let in quite a bit early on until I sealed the two starboard hatch cover bungee mounts, which had been damaged in the thread cutting process. After sealing with marine sealant much less water came in and then only in heavy conditions.
This was due to the hatch flexing/poor seal mating I believe.
I've never liked the Hobie method of sealing the front hatch, which relies on a perfect fit for the two seals to work. Any misalignment lets water in. Your huge "Roids" seal works because it takes up the misalignment/flexing gap.
I wish Hobie would develop a hatch seal more like those found on Sea Kayaks ... a hatch cover, over a second flexible cover. That's what I've tried to achieve with the nylon cover. Despite the hatch lip still flexing inwards in heavy conditions the flexible cover has stopped almost all the water from entering the hull. Often when removing the hatch cover, there is water pooling on the nylon cover, which isn't as tight a fit as it could be. A neoprene, tight as a drum cover, would work better but would probably put too much pressure on the hatch lip in it's current design.

I certainly can't argue with anything you say Stringy. I just went in the garage and tried to make my 2011 AI bow flex like you did with your TI. Didn't happen, i.e., my AI bow did not flex when I put my full weight(185 lb) in front of the front hatch opening. For whatever the reason, the Tandem just does not seem as strong in the hatch area.

Here is a side by side picture of the two bows taken from the Hobie site today, Dec 12, 2014. The Tandem is not quite as clear—perhaps deliberately on Hobie’s part—but, the AI looks wider.



It is interesting that amas of the AI do not reach forward as much as on the pictured TI. The AI also seems as least as “full” in the bow area as the TI. Presumably this will lead to a dryer ride for the 2015 AI compared to previous models.

If the 2015 AI exhibits oil canning in the hatch area, I am going to immediately reinforce the area. You said this was an option:

Keith

BTW, I only used one sea kayak with an inner cover/seal. It was neoprene and leaked badly when held under water for a period. It was also a rental kayak a friend of mine used. I've always used a quality fiberglass sea kayak by Current Designs--for all practical purposes mine and my wife's never leaked more than a few drops, even in the roughest water. Bottom line, given the choice between a neoprene inner cover or your nylon, I would take the nylon.

_________________
2015 AI 2, 2014 Tandem

"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex ... It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction." A. Einstein

"Less is more" Anon

Hey Skipper, no white pointers in the Murray so come on over and you don't have to worry.

I put a hole in my TI by inserting the cart incorrectly. My fault .
Next time I went out, after a couple of hours of sailing I noticed how low we were in the water.
This did make it slow going heading back to shore but not impossible.
I then discovered about 6 inches of water in the hull which I drained slowly by dragging the TI
gradually up the beach as the water drained from the back plug.
There were two adults on board so I am confident that the amas will prevent a TI from sinking.

I too, like old Tony, have added pool spaghetti to the inside of the hull.

Cheers,
Brian

Ha, reminds me of one of my misadventures. I simply forgot to put the drain plug in prior to launch. I swear it filled up with water 10x faster than it was draining out. Finally enlisted the aid of a tyke playing with a little bucket on the shore to bail from the rear hatch and was back sailing in no time lol

It was rather choppy that day and I noticed the ride smoothed out before noticing we were riding low in the water. First order of business when I got home was to order a bilge pump


Edit: I just looked at my GPS tracks for that day. It was only 13 minutes before I realized we were taking on water. It took 12 minutes to go 800 yards to get back to shore. Once I realized it was caused by the missing drain plug, I was really surprised it took on that much water that fast through such a small opening.

Thanks, that's interesting Keith. I always thought neoprene would be superior. We came from SIK's and the neoprene skirts were always better at keeping water out and not letting it pool, so I just assumed it would make a better cover.

As the Hobie pics have been Photoshopped, I'm not sure how much we can make of them, but that raised/ridged bow deck area would add to the strength of the new AI and make it a drier ride. As I said I think the TI's greater flexing is due to its larger area with no additional reinforcing. I can walk on the bow deck on my AI but not on the TI ...it collapses.
Hopefully the new model will have improvements in this area?