electric motor for drop in on tandem island

Hi! Am looking to get an electric motor for our tandem island. Don't want anything that we have that is a permanent install but rather something that can fit where the mirage drive fits. Read about the Bixpy but not sure if the Island is too heavy for it.

Thank you for your consideration!

Hobie sells the Evolve motor for that very purpose. I'm not crazy about the design though because you lose the pedal drive on one end when you use it and you cannot quickly raise or lower it in shallow water. If you run into shallow water, which happens a lot, you need to quickly haul it out before the expensive motor drive is damaged. In my opinion, this is not practical.

Speaking from a lot of experience as one of the foremost experts on powering the TI, you would be better off with a Torqeedo Ultralight motor. Please see this thread for detailed information.



With a Torqeedo Ultralight, you would not need to ever have to drop a motor in or take it out, you simply lower it or raise it as needed via a simple control line. It's always there when you need it at a moment's notice, and out of the way when you don't need it.

In my opinion, all TI's should always have a motor. It vastly improves the functionality and safety of the boat, especially in rough weather when you need it the most. Please read this thread before you decide.

Installing a motor on a TI requires careful consideration and selection if it's going to do what you need it to do.

Thank you for your reply as well as the link to the thread on the Torqueedo Ultralight. I am leaning towards the Evolve since it does not require a permanent installation onto the hull. We usually are in deeper waters so am not too concerned about breaking the Evolve in shallow waters. Would the Evolve have the same power etc as the Torqueedo Ultralight? What about the Bixpy?

Thanks,

Michele

If you are looking for simple ready to go option, then the Evolve is the recommended path.

If best value / performance / longer range are considerations, and you have time / skills to build a mount for the TI.... then I would recommend the 2.5 Hp Suzuki 4 stroke outboard motor.

You will find lots of information on this subject in this forum.

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold

The Evolve is actually a 1HP Torqeedo Ultralight 403 redesigned to fit into a TI drive slot. It's the exact same motor, battery, and controls. If you're ok with the shallow water issue and losing a drive slot, then it looks like this may be what you want. If you need it for longer distances, I'd advise getting another battery. Any Torqeedo Ultralight battery is compatible with the Evolve as well as some from Torqeedo's Travel line of electric motors. Just be well-advised that while this is by far the easiest motor to install, it is not the easiest or most practical to use. You'll constantly need to deal with inserting and removing it. Once you install an Ultralight, then it's considerably easier to use.

Torqeedo now also has a 3HP Ultralight that offers you similar power as a 2.5 HP gas outboard. Depending on how fast you want to go and how much power you need for rough weather, waves, and currents, the 3HP is considerably better than the 1HP.

The 2.5 Suzuki gas-powered outboard is an excellent choice for those who don't want to spend the money to get an electric motor but it's heavy, noisy, and you need to deal with gasoline and the exhaust. You also need to come up with your own mount (although you can copy several designs offered in this forum). If money is not a major consideration, then an electric motor offers a lot of advantages for the TI. Everything concerning gas vs electric motors is covered in this thread.

Concerning the Bixpy, not a lot is known about it at this point. If you enjoy experimenting, fabricating, and taking a risk, you can work on adapting a Bixby to a TI or try to find someone who already has and then copy their design. I'm sure it's possible, but if you want a plug-and-play solution, your best bet is the Evolve or the 1HP Torqeedo Ultralight.

Well, I bought a Bixpy electric motor with the Hobie adapter to use on our tandem Island. Less than 30 minutes out on the intracoastal, we went over a large rock and the adapter broke. Fortunately, the Bixpy motor was fine. In fact, we were able to still use the motor by holding it in the water on the side of the kayak. The Bixpy motor has 12 speeds. We never went above speed 5. We used it probably for about 2 hours total and there were 3 out of 5 bars left on the power gauge. So far, we are happy with it. It moved the kayak without us peddling at about 3 mph at speed 4-5. When we pedaled, we were going 4-6 mph.

I feel mounting a motor in the pedal drive hole is simply poor engineering. This is a problem with both the Evolve and the Bixpy with the pedal drive adapter and I've mentioned this problem often before. You're placing a very expensive, vulnerable, plastic motor on a solid shaft or encasement and sticking it below the hull where it has absolutely no protection from rocks, sand, gravel, and other shallow water hazards commonly encountered in a TI. There is no automatic kick-up protection mechanism as found on most other motors and no easy way to rapidly move the motor out of harm's way should shallow water suddenly come up as it often does when using the TI or if a floating hazard such as a log is encountered in deeper water. It's a recipe for motor and prop damage. Even the Hobie pedal drives were specifically and properly designed to easily be deployed into a safe position to avoid shallow water damage. Imagine if they weren't. So sticking a motor underneath a hull with no protection is just asking for trouble.

A motor should be able to both kick up when unexpectedly encountering a hazard and should be easily and quickly raisable when shallow water is approaching. Lacking these features, a motor is highly prone to damage. That's not just an economic issue but also a safety issue if you are left stranded as a result.

I would never recommend installing a motor in the Hobie pedal drive hole. There are superior options that will ensure better protection of your motor, your money, and your safety.

I don't know about the Torqueedo, but the Evolve and the Bixpy have about the same power. Just, the Bixpy is way cheaper. Both are beautifully engineered, and the Bixby comes with many mounting options you can mount it it the mirage drive slot but can also mount it on the back, they sell kits for mounting on the back of kayaks.

If you want to get really carried away you can do something like the below. Unfortunately I could not link the video, but this thing goes scary fast.

_________________
2014 Hobie Outback set up for rod and longline fishing

I don't think that specific dual-motor arrangement would work on a TI due to the TI's rudder, but other Bixby installations might work.

As far as scary fast goes, the TI can never achieve that, lol. It can only go just so fast before it begins to plow excessively, requiring exponentially more power to overcome. It was not designed to be a powerboat. It has no ability on its own to plane like a powerboat hull, so it will always be a displacement hull boat. 2.5 to 3HP can effectively get the TI to about 7-8 MPH maximum where it just about peaks in terms of hull capability. Fusioneng was able to go faster with twin Honda gas outboards, but his hull was significantly enhanced far beyond what any ordinary TI owner would likely do. Going much faster with an ordinary TI would require significantly more power and even then, the hull would plow so badly that it would not be practical or comfortable. Too much HP can also potentially damage the hull. So 7-8 MPH is probably a practical maximum for a TI. If you need to motor faster than that, you own the wrong boat, a powerboat is far more practical. If you want scary fast get a 300 HP PWC, they go around 70 MPH. I have one, so I know. Now that's scary fast.

So, for most people, the TI's maximum practical motored speed will be about 7-8 MPH stock. Around 5 MPH will be the nominal sustained speed for these motors, you don't want to always run them full thottle. You don't need a complex dual-motor setup to do that. Just one Suzuki 2.5HP gas outboard or a 3HP Torqeedo 1103AC will get you there.

A Torqeedo 403 series with a static thrust of 33 lbs or a Bixby J-2 with a static thrust of 32 lbs are approximately equivalent to a 1HP motor and will power a TI to about 4-5 MPH max with a nominal sustained speed of around 3.5 MPH. Mounting two of each to achieve higher speeds is a lot more trouble and probably less efficient than using a single 2.5-3 HP motor.

Agreed with most of your post. When I said scary fast, I meant for that boat. Which I think clocked in at a max 12 mph.

However the main purpose I showed the pic was to illustrate just one of the many rear mounting options, Bixpy have something that will fit pretty much any kayak.

_________________
2014 Hobie Outback set up for rod and longline fishing

The TI is not just any kayak, that's the problem with mounting a motor to it.

Do you know of any Bixpy mounts that would specifically work on a TI? I think a lot of people here would like to see that, including myself. We have little interest in conventional Kayak motor mounts because they simply won't work on a TI/AI. So it's pretty much useless showing those types of mounts here.

The issue with the TI is its rear-mounted rudder. Most paddle-driven kayaks don't use a rudder and can use conventional bracket motor mounts. Hobie uses rudders because of the pedal drive and can't use conventional brackets. The TI's rudder is large and gets in the way of rear mounting a motor. Torqeedo's shaft-mounted motor mount was a great solution as it places the motor in the back of the rudder. It's still available as an option but they've now moved on to a conventional bracket mount which presents problems for the TI/AI and has only yet been able to be side-mounted which is a compromise.

The only way to mount a Bixpy J-2 to a TI/AI, of which I'm aware, is to use the Mirage pedal-drive hole. This has a lot of issues as I mentioned earlier. You lose the use of the pedal drive, the motor is highly vulnerable to damage being under the hull with no way to quickly raise it, and the hull will interfere with the prop wash causing a loss of efficiency and usable power.

So, in my opinion, the best motor mount for the TI is still the Torqeedo Ball Mount because it can be center mounted in back of the TI's rudder.



That gives it maximum efficiency. It has no side torque induced power loss as with a side-mounted motor, no power loss from interference to the prop-wash as with a side or under-hull mounted motor, and no shallow water vulnerability as with an under-hull mounted motor. With very low-powered motors (1-3HP), you don't want to lose any power due to inefficiencies if at all avoidable.

I don't feel the Bixby is a viable option for the TI/AI until a suitable TI/AI mount for it is developed, tested, and proven either by Bixby or a third party. It's too underpowered for side mounting and under-hull mounting is simply a bad idea.

Yes there's several of them, and even mounts that clip directly onto the rudder.

Essentially if you can mount a Torqeedo, you can just as easily mount a Bixpy.

However your tone seem rather argumentative and I have no interest in arguing for Bixpy, nor am I even saying it is better, or worse. I simply posted to add information and options to the thread.

I am out of this conversation.

_________________
2014 Hobie Outback set up for rod and longline fishing

For whatever it might be worth- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viE66Knbt4o

I'm not trying to be argumentive at all, only practical. Unless someone wants to risk spending considerable money to experiment (which is fine for some inventive people, including me) most others simply want a plug-and-play motor for the TI that is 100% proven to work. I've experienced that with the Suzuki 2.5 HP and the Torqueedo 403 series and thoroughly documented and compared each here, and there is currently one verified use of the Toeqeedo 1103AC for the TI posted by #CaptnChaos. So these motors can be recommended.

As for the Bixby, I've only heard some outlying stories about them being used on a TI. I've not yet seen anything that I could use to recommend one, but I've been hoping to come across something. That's why I was hoping you knew of a verifiable source. If you do, please share. You certainly don't need to argue for the Bixby, just simply share any info you've come across, for what it's worth. That would be very helpful.

I'm definitely not against using a Bixby for the TI. I simply want to see a practical TI application of it successfully in use so I could analyze it. I might even buy one myself since I enjoy and have considerable expertise with experimenting and fabrication (I'm an engineer). I would like to design and build a practical, replicable TI mount for the Bixby J-2, document it, and then prove it works along with real-world comparisons to other TI/AI motor options as I did with the Tohatsu 3.5HP, Suzuki 2.5 HP, and the Torqueedo 403 series motors here on this forum.

However, my next pending goal is to design and thoroughly document for easy replication the best possible mount for the 3HP Torqeedo 1103AC which I feel is currently the best all-around motor for the TI despite its cost. Both the 403 and the J-2 are a bit underpowered for the size and weight of the TI in my opinion and the gas outboards are too heavy and obtrusive. But due to the very high cost of the 1103AC, a dual-mount J-2 might just be powerful enough and perhaps cost less than the 1103AC. That all remains to be seen and proven.

I recently retired from over 45 years of industrial manufacturing engineering so I now have a lot of time and expertise available for research and development of TI motors and practical, easily duplicatable motor mounts. I'm going to try to contact Torqeedo again about procuring an 1103AC for this purpose. If that falls through, I'll contact Bixby to see if they're interested.

Agree the Torqeedo Ultralight 1103A would be a solid electric motor to add the TI.

The larger Torqeedo 1103A does come with a higher price north of $2900 and weight ~34 lbs.

Better fit for my sailing (and budget) requirements has been the Suzuki 2.5 HP with a price of $750 and a weight of 29 lbs. Range and thrust are solid.

_________________
Jim
Hobie TI 2022 - Offshore rig - Outboard - having fun!
Hobie TI 2021 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie TI 2016 - Offshore rig - Outboard - sold
Hobie Kona 2014
Hobie AI 2015 - sold
Hobie Rev 13 2014 - sold
Hobie Outback - 2008 - sold